Has an encirclement ever succeeded with numerically inferior cavalry?











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This is a follow up to my previous question. In all the examples given there was some other advantage that decided the battle and not encirclement. For example at Narva



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Narva_(1700)




They attacked inexperienced Russian regiments and crumbled them one by one.




Also Finnish Motti tactics in the winter war, Teutoburg etc are a type of divide and conquer ambush tactic and not simply an encirclement. At Alesia there are no historical details but I have not seen evidence Rome had less cavalry than the enemy.



I cant find any examples where the encircler didn't have have a superior local number of motivated cavalry.



Has an encirclement ever succeeded with numerically inferior cavalry?










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  • According to the Swedish version of the wiki page you link to (I cannot find the 2nd number in the English one), the Swedes had 4300 and the Russians 6000 cavalrymen at Narva. But I don't think they were so important in the actual battle.
    – Tomas By
    4 hours ago

















up vote
2
down vote

favorite












This is a follow up to my previous question. In all the examples given there was some other advantage that decided the battle and not encirclement. For example at Narva



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Narva_(1700)




They attacked inexperienced Russian regiments and crumbled them one by one.




Also Finnish Motti tactics in the winter war, Teutoburg etc are a type of divide and conquer ambush tactic and not simply an encirclement. At Alesia there are no historical details but I have not seen evidence Rome had less cavalry than the enemy.



I cant find any examples where the encircler didn't have have a superior local number of motivated cavalry.



Has an encirclement ever succeeded with numerically inferior cavalry?










share|improve this question









New contributor




John is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




















  • According to the Swedish version of the wiki page you link to (I cannot find the 2nd number in the English one), the Swedes had 4300 and the Russians 6000 cavalrymen at Narva. But I don't think they were so important in the actual battle.
    – Tomas By
    4 hours ago















up vote
2
down vote

favorite









up vote
2
down vote

favorite











This is a follow up to my previous question. In all the examples given there was some other advantage that decided the battle and not encirclement. For example at Narva



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Narva_(1700)




They attacked inexperienced Russian regiments and crumbled them one by one.




Also Finnish Motti tactics in the winter war, Teutoburg etc are a type of divide and conquer ambush tactic and not simply an encirclement. At Alesia there are no historical details but I have not seen evidence Rome had less cavalry than the enemy.



I cant find any examples where the encircler didn't have have a superior local number of motivated cavalry.



Has an encirclement ever succeeded with numerically inferior cavalry?










share|improve this question









New contributor




John is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











This is a follow up to my previous question. In all the examples given there was some other advantage that decided the battle and not encirclement. For example at Narva



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Narva_(1700)




They attacked inexperienced Russian regiments and crumbled them one by one.




Also Finnish Motti tactics in the winter war, Teutoburg etc are a type of divide and conquer ambush tactic and not simply an encirclement. At Alesia there are no historical details but I have not seen evidence Rome had less cavalry than the enemy.



I cant find any examples where the encircler didn't have have a superior local number of motivated cavalry.



Has an encirclement ever succeeded with numerically inferior cavalry?







war






share|improve this question









New contributor




John is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











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Check out our Code of Conduct.









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edited 4 hours ago









KorvinStarmast

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3,12721729






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John

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  • According to the Swedish version of the wiki page you link to (I cannot find the 2nd number in the English one), the Swedes had 4300 and the Russians 6000 cavalrymen at Narva. But I don't think they were so important in the actual battle.
    – Tomas By
    4 hours ago




















  • According to the Swedish version of the wiki page you link to (I cannot find the 2nd number in the English one), the Swedes had 4300 and the Russians 6000 cavalrymen at Narva. But I don't think they were so important in the actual battle.
    – Tomas By
    4 hours ago


















According to the Swedish version of the wiki page you link to (I cannot find the 2nd number in the English one), the Swedes had 4300 and the Russians 6000 cavalrymen at Narva. But I don't think they were so important in the actual battle.
– Tomas By
4 hours ago






According to the Swedish version of the wiki page you link to (I cannot find the 2nd number in the English one), the Swedes had 4300 and the Russians 6000 cavalrymen at Narva. But I don't think they were so important in the actual battle.
– Tomas By
4 hours ago












2 Answers
2






active

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up vote
2
down vote













The Battle of Cowpens where 300 British cavalry (250 of the British Legion plus 50 of the 17th Light Dragoons) outnumbered American Cavalry of only ~180 men and horses ("82 Continental light dragoons; 55 state dragoons; 45 militia dragoons") by almost 2:1.



Total forces for both sides were about 1,150 British against about 1,900 (most poorly trained and disciplined militia) Americans.




Caught in a clever double envelopment that has been compared with the Battle of Cannae in ancient times, many of the British surrendered.




AN interesting note - in both this battle and Cannae, Morgan and Hannibal leverage the very weakness of their main battle line into a tactical advantage that sets up the double envelopment.



enter image description here






share|improve this answer



















  • 1




    Do Dragoons really count as cavalry??!!?!one. ducks and hides
    – Samuel Russell
    18 mins ago








  • 1




    @SamuelRussell: Emmanuel Grouchy's dragoons were always competent cavalry. Prior to the 1840's I doubt a British dragoon, light or heavy, could have distinguished a carbine from a pistol.
    – Pieter Geerkens
    5 mins ago




















up vote
2
down vote













I'm not sure if this counts as a valid answer, but ships of the line are always superior to cavalry. Or, in this case: nearly always.



In 1793 the Dutch fleet was frozen at anchor, moored close to Den Helder, near the island of Texel. That winter was quite severe, even the Rhine river froze over. The Dutch republic was at war with the French republic - and losing. A French cavalry unit captured the fleet intact.



General Pichechru (in Dutch he's known as Pietje Cru) knew the ships were iced in. He ordered the very appropriate named general Jan Willem de Winter to capture the fleet intact. He used hussars and infantry, carried on the backs of the horses. The hooves were covered with fabric to muffle the sound. The hussars rode up to the ships, quietly, and the infantry boarded the ships. The fleet was captured intact, without casualties.



That capture ended the war. It's one of the very few examples in history of cavalry capturing a fleet.






share|improve this answer



















  • 1




    I learned that story at my father's knee - well done!
    – Pieter Geerkens
    1 hour ago






  • 1




    @PieterGeerkens I think this is the only example in history of general Winter actually being present in the flesh on a battlefield.
    – Jos
    43 mins ago












  • I think the Gates of Moscow in 1940-1 is another clear example. That winter was much harsher than usual.
    – Pieter Geerkens
    41 mins ago










  • @PieterGeerkens Oh. Was there a general (de) Winter present? I meant literally, not figuratively. The chap capturing that fleet was named de Winter.
    – Jos
    30 mins ago













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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
2
down vote













The Battle of Cowpens where 300 British cavalry (250 of the British Legion plus 50 of the 17th Light Dragoons) outnumbered American Cavalry of only ~180 men and horses ("82 Continental light dragoons; 55 state dragoons; 45 militia dragoons") by almost 2:1.



Total forces for both sides were about 1,150 British against about 1,900 (most poorly trained and disciplined militia) Americans.




Caught in a clever double envelopment that has been compared with the Battle of Cannae in ancient times, many of the British surrendered.




AN interesting note - in both this battle and Cannae, Morgan and Hannibal leverage the very weakness of their main battle line into a tactical advantage that sets up the double envelopment.



enter image description here






share|improve this answer



















  • 1




    Do Dragoons really count as cavalry??!!?!one. ducks and hides
    – Samuel Russell
    18 mins ago








  • 1




    @SamuelRussell: Emmanuel Grouchy's dragoons were always competent cavalry. Prior to the 1840's I doubt a British dragoon, light or heavy, could have distinguished a carbine from a pistol.
    – Pieter Geerkens
    5 mins ago

















up vote
2
down vote













The Battle of Cowpens where 300 British cavalry (250 of the British Legion plus 50 of the 17th Light Dragoons) outnumbered American Cavalry of only ~180 men and horses ("82 Continental light dragoons; 55 state dragoons; 45 militia dragoons") by almost 2:1.



Total forces for both sides were about 1,150 British against about 1,900 (most poorly trained and disciplined militia) Americans.




Caught in a clever double envelopment that has been compared with the Battle of Cannae in ancient times, many of the British surrendered.




AN interesting note - in both this battle and Cannae, Morgan and Hannibal leverage the very weakness of their main battle line into a tactical advantage that sets up the double envelopment.



enter image description here






share|improve this answer



















  • 1




    Do Dragoons really count as cavalry??!!?!one. ducks and hides
    – Samuel Russell
    18 mins ago








  • 1




    @SamuelRussell: Emmanuel Grouchy's dragoons were always competent cavalry. Prior to the 1840's I doubt a British dragoon, light or heavy, could have distinguished a carbine from a pistol.
    – Pieter Geerkens
    5 mins ago















up vote
2
down vote










up vote
2
down vote









The Battle of Cowpens where 300 British cavalry (250 of the British Legion plus 50 of the 17th Light Dragoons) outnumbered American Cavalry of only ~180 men and horses ("82 Continental light dragoons; 55 state dragoons; 45 militia dragoons") by almost 2:1.



Total forces for both sides were about 1,150 British against about 1,900 (most poorly trained and disciplined militia) Americans.




Caught in a clever double envelopment that has been compared with the Battle of Cannae in ancient times, many of the British surrendered.




AN interesting note - in both this battle and Cannae, Morgan and Hannibal leverage the very weakness of their main battle line into a tactical advantage that sets up the double envelopment.



enter image description here






share|improve this answer














The Battle of Cowpens where 300 British cavalry (250 of the British Legion plus 50 of the 17th Light Dragoons) outnumbered American Cavalry of only ~180 men and horses ("82 Continental light dragoons; 55 state dragoons; 45 militia dragoons") by almost 2:1.



Total forces for both sides were about 1,150 British against about 1,900 (most poorly trained and disciplined militia) Americans.




Caught in a clever double envelopment that has been compared with the Battle of Cannae in ancient times, many of the British surrendered.




AN interesting note - in both this battle and Cannae, Morgan and Hannibal leverage the very weakness of their main battle line into a tactical advantage that sets up the double envelopment.



enter image description here







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 2 hours ago

























answered 4 hours ago









Pieter Geerkens

38k6110182




38k6110182








  • 1




    Do Dragoons really count as cavalry??!!?!one. ducks and hides
    – Samuel Russell
    18 mins ago








  • 1




    @SamuelRussell: Emmanuel Grouchy's dragoons were always competent cavalry. Prior to the 1840's I doubt a British dragoon, light or heavy, could have distinguished a carbine from a pistol.
    – Pieter Geerkens
    5 mins ago
















  • 1




    Do Dragoons really count as cavalry??!!?!one. ducks and hides
    – Samuel Russell
    18 mins ago








  • 1




    @SamuelRussell: Emmanuel Grouchy's dragoons were always competent cavalry. Prior to the 1840's I doubt a British dragoon, light or heavy, could have distinguished a carbine from a pistol.
    – Pieter Geerkens
    5 mins ago










1




1




Do Dragoons really count as cavalry??!!?!one. ducks and hides
– Samuel Russell
18 mins ago






Do Dragoons really count as cavalry??!!?!one. ducks and hides
– Samuel Russell
18 mins ago






1




1




@SamuelRussell: Emmanuel Grouchy's dragoons were always competent cavalry. Prior to the 1840's I doubt a British dragoon, light or heavy, could have distinguished a carbine from a pistol.
– Pieter Geerkens
5 mins ago






@SamuelRussell: Emmanuel Grouchy's dragoons were always competent cavalry. Prior to the 1840's I doubt a British dragoon, light or heavy, could have distinguished a carbine from a pistol.
– Pieter Geerkens
5 mins ago












up vote
2
down vote













I'm not sure if this counts as a valid answer, but ships of the line are always superior to cavalry. Or, in this case: nearly always.



In 1793 the Dutch fleet was frozen at anchor, moored close to Den Helder, near the island of Texel. That winter was quite severe, even the Rhine river froze over. The Dutch republic was at war with the French republic - and losing. A French cavalry unit captured the fleet intact.



General Pichechru (in Dutch he's known as Pietje Cru) knew the ships were iced in. He ordered the very appropriate named general Jan Willem de Winter to capture the fleet intact. He used hussars and infantry, carried on the backs of the horses. The hooves were covered with fabric to muffle the sound. The hussars rode up to the ships, quietly, and the infantry boarded the ships. The fleet was captured intact, without casualties.



That capture ended the war. It's one of the very few examples in history of cavalry capturing a fleet.






share|improve this answer



















  • 1




    I learned that story at my father's knee - well done!
    – Pieter Geerkens
    1 hour ago






  • 1




    @PieterGeerkens I think this is the only example in history of general Winter actually being present in the flesh on a battlefield.
    – Jos
    43 mins ago












  • I think the Gates of Moscow in 1940-1 is another clear example. That winter was much harsher than usual.
    – Pieter Geerkens
    41 mins ago










  • @PieterGeerkens Oh. Was there a general (de) Winter present? I meant literally, not figuratively. The chap capturing that fleet was named de Winter.
    – Jos
    30 mins ago

















up vote
2
down vote













I'm not sure if this counts as a valid answer, but ships of the line are always superior to cavalry. Or, in this case: nearly always.



In 1793 the Dutch fleet was frozen at anchor, moored close to Den Helder, near the island of Texel. That winter was quite severe, even the Rhine river froze over. The Dutch republic was at war with the French republic - and losing. A French cavalry unit captured the fleet intact.



General Pichechru (in Dutch he's known as Pietje Cru) knew the ships were iced in. He ordered the very appropriate named general Jan Willem de Winter to capture the fleet intact. He used hussars and infantry, carried on the backs of the horses. The hooves were covered with fabric to muffle the sound. The hussars rode up to the ships, quietly, and the infantry boarded the ships. The fleet was captured intact, without casualties.



That capture ended the war. It's one of the very few examples in history of cavalry capturing a fleet.






share|improve this answer



















  • 1




    I learned that story at my father's knee - well done!
    – Pieter Geerkens
    1 hour ago






  • 1




    @PieterGeerkens I think this is the only example in history of general Winter actually being present in the flesh on a battlefield.
    – Jos
    43 mins ago












  • I think the Gates of Moscow in 1940-1 is another clear example. That winter was much harsher than usual.
    – Pieter Geerkens
    41 mins ago










  • @PieterGeerkens Oh. Was there a general (de) Winter present? I meant literally, not figuratively. The chap capturing that fleet was named de Winter.
    – Jos
    30 mins ago















up vote
2
down vote










up vote
2
down vote









I'm not sure if this counts as a valid answer, but ships of the line are always superior to cavalry. Or, in this case: nearly always.



In 1793 the Dutch fleet was frozen at anchor, moored close to Den Helder, near the island of Texel. That winter was quite severe, even the Rhine river froze over. The Dutch republic was at war with the French republic - and losing. A French cavalry unit captured the fleet intact.



General Pichechru (in Dutch he's known as Pietje Cru) knew the ships were iced in. He ordered the very appropriate named general Jan Willem de Winter to capture the fleet intact. He used hussars and infantry, carried on the backs of the horses. The hooves were covered with fabric to muffle the sound. The hussars rode up to the ships, quietly, and the infantry boarded the ships. The fleet was captured intact, without casualties.



That capture ended the war. It's one of the very few examples in history of cavalry capturing a fleet.






share|improve this answer














I'm not sure if this counts as a valid answer, but ships of the line are always superior to cavalry. Or, in this case: nearly always.



In 1793 the Dutch fleet was frozen at anchor, moored close to Den Helder, near the island of Texel. That winter was quite severe, even the Rhine river froze over. The Dutch republic was at war with the French republic - and losing. A French cavalry unit captured the fleet intact.



General Pichechru (in Dutch he's known as Pietje Cru) knew the ships were iced in. He ordered the very appropriate named general Jan Willem de Winter to capture the fleet intact. He used hussars and infantry, carried on the backs of the horses. The hooves were covered with fabric to muffle the sound. The hussars rode up to the ships, quietly, and the infantry boarded the ships. The fleet was captured intact, without casualties.



That capture ended the war. It's one of the very few examples in history of cavalry capturing a fleet.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 4 mins ago

























answered 1 hour ago









Jos

8,01311842




8,01311842








  • 1




    I learned that story at my father's knee - well done!
    – Pieter Geerkens
    1 hour ago






  • 1




    @PieterGeerkens I think this is the only example in history of general Winter actually being present in the flesh on a battlefield.
    – Jos
    43 mins ago












  • I think the Gates of Moscow in 1940-1 is another clear example. That winter was much harsher than usual.
    – Pieter Geerkens
    41 mins ago










  • @PieterGeerkens Oh. Was there a general (de) Winter present? I meant literally, not figuratively. The chap capturing that fleet was named de Winter.
    – Jos
    30 mins ago
















  • 1




    I learned that story at my father's knee - well done!
    – Pieter Geerkens
    1 hour ago






  • 1




    @PieterGeerkens I think this is the only example in history of general Winter actually being present in the flesh on a battlefield.
    – Jos
    43 mins ago












  • I think the Gates of Moscow in 1940-1 is another clear example. That winter was much harsher than usual.
    – Pieter Geerkens
    41 mins ago










  • @PieterGeerkens Oh. Was there a general (de) Winter present? I meant literally, not figuratively. The chap capturing that fleet was named de Winter.
    – Jos
    30 mins ago










1




1




I learned that story at my father's knee - well done!
– Pieter Geerkens
1 hour ago




I learned that story at my father's knee - well done!
– Pieter Geerkens
1 hour ago




1




1




@PieterGeerkens I think this is the only example in history of general Winter actually being present in the flesh on a battlefield.
– Jos
43 mins ago






@PieterGeerkens I think this is the only example in history of general Winter actually being present in the flesh on a battlefield.
– Jos
43 mins ago














I think the Gates of Moscow in 1940-1 is another clear example. That winter was much harsher than usual.
– Pieter Geerkens
41 mins ago




I think the Gates of Moscow in 1940-1 is another clear example. That winter was much harsher than usual.
– Pieter Geerkens
41 mins ago












@PieterGeerkens Oh. Was there a general (de) Winter present? I meant literally, not figuratively. The chap capturing that fleet was named de Winter.
– Jos
30 mins ago






@PieterGeerkens Oh. Was there a general (de) Winter present? I meant literally, not figuratively. The chap capturing that fleet was named de Winter.
– Jos
30 mins ago












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