Why is “ß” not used in Swiss German?
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What are some of the historical reasons why the orthographic symbol ß is not used in Swiss Standard German and “ss” is used instead?
orthography written-language germanic-languages german
edited 31 mins ago
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up vote
18
down vote
favorite
What are some of the historical reasons why the orthographic symbol ß is not used in Swiss Standard German and “ss” is used instead?
orthography written-language germanic-languages german
edited 31 mins ago
Community♦
1
asked 19 hours ago
alecxe
19317
New contributor
alecxe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
up vote
18
down vote
favorite
up vote
18
down vote
favorite
What are some of the historical reasons why the orthographic symbol ß is not used in Swiss Standard German and “ss” is used instead?
orthography written-language germanic-languages german
edited 31 mins ago
Community♦
1
asked 19 hours ago
alecxe
19317
New contributor
alecxe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
What are some of the historical reasons why the orthographic symbol ß is not used in Swiss Standard German and “ss” is used instead?
orthography written-language germanic-languages german
orthography written-language germanic-languages german
edited 31 mins ago
Community♦
1
asked 19 hours ago
alecxe
19317
New contributor
alecxe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 31 mins ago
Community♦
1
asked 19 hours ago
alecxe
19317
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alecxe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 31 mins ago
Community♦
1
edited 31 mins ago
Community♦
1
edited 31 mins ago
Community♦
1
1
asked 19 hours ago
alecxe
19317
New contributor
alecxe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 19 hours ago
alecxe
19317
asked 19 hours ago
alecxe
19317
19317
New contributor
alecxe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
alecxe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
alecxe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
28
down vote
accepted
It is because of the typewriter. A Swiss typewriter needs to support three languages: German, French, and Italian. Therefore on the Swiss typewriter, there was no ß key. It also has only lowercase umlauts ä, ö, and ü. A picture of a Swiss typewriter can be seen here.
The lack of that key has led to a subsequent deprecation of the ß overall.
edited 14 hours ago
V2Blast
1054
answered 18 hours ago
jknappen
10.1k22550
2
Related: That's also why Swiss town names don't start with Umlauts and use Oe Ae Ue instead (e.g. Oerlikon).
– Peter
6 hours ago
This doesn't sound like a sufficient reasoning (in the logical sense) to me. One could also state "a swiss typewriter needs [...]. Therefore on the Swiss typewriter, there are ßäöü and ´`^°"
– Sebastian Mach
5 hours ago
@SebastianMach back in the old days when typewriters where still mechanical, this wasn't that easy
– Josef
4 hours ago
@SebastianMach In the olden days, languages were far more beholden to practical considerations than they are now. And why wouldn't they be? This is how languages have always evolved: necessity as well as changing habits.
– Lightness Races in Orbit
3 hours ago
1
@Josef: It does not sound plausible to me that the magic upper limit of the number of types is reached exactly where regional characters come into play. A typewriter from the same epoch e.g. features (roughly) 77 keys: i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/bd/57/…
– Sebastian Mach
3 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
up vote
13
down vote
The Swiss government has an explanation on p. 18. One contributing factor is typography, namely the rise of use of the Antiqua font, which was claimed to not include ß. I have no evaluation of the truthiness of that claim, for the relevant historical period, i.e. prior to 1901. It is certainly the case that its shape in Antique was not uniform.
The rules for using the letter have been complicated and much of the 1996 German spelling reform was about rules for s. As to why Switzerland was earlier and more radical in eliminating ß, this may be a cultural matter. Pairs like Flosse (fin), Floße (rafts), Busse (busses), Buße (penance) are rare and contextually not likely to lead to confusion.
One predicts that Masse (mass), Maße (dimensions) might still be distinguished with ss/ß.
answered 18 hours ago
user6726
32.9k12060
"more radical in eliminating ß" - this seems to imply the changes of the 1996 spelling reform had the intention of eliminating ß, which is not quite the case.
– O. R. Mapper
5 hours ago
5
Though it does give confusion with "Alkohol in Massen", which without the ess-tset to disambiguate can mean either "alcohol in moderation" or "alcohol en masse" ;)
– Muzer
4 hours ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
28
down vote
accepted
It is because of the typewriter. A Swiss typewriter needs to support three languages: German, French, and Italian. Therefore on the Swiss typewriter, there was no ß key. It also has only lowercase umlauts ä, ö, and ü. A picture of a Swiss typewriter can be seen here.
The lack of that key has led to a subsequent deprecation of the ß overall.
edited 14 hours ago
V2Blast
1054
answered 18 hours ago
jknappen
10.1k22550
2
Related: That's also why Swiss town names don't start with Umlauts and use Oe Ae Ue instead (e.g. Oerlikon).
– Peter
6 hours ago
This doesn't sound like a sufficient reasoning (in the logical sense) to me. One could also state "a swiss typewriter needs [...]. Therefore on the Swiss typewriter, there are ßäöü and ´`^°"
– Sebastian Mach
5 hours ago
@SebastianMach back in the old days when typewriters where still mechanical, this wasn't that easy
– Josef
4 hours ago
@SebastianMach In the olden days, languages were far more beholden to practical considerations than they are now. And why wouldn't they be? This is how languages have always evolved: necessity as well as changing habits.
– Lightness Races in Orbit
3 hours ago
1
@Josef: It does not sound plausible to me that the magic upper limit of the number of types is reached exactly where regional characters come into play. A typewriter from the same epoch e.g. features (roughly) 77 keys: i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/bd/57/…
– Sebastian Mach
3 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
up vote
28
down vote
accepted
It is because of the typewriter. A Swiss typewriter needs to support three languages: German, French, and Italian. Therefore on the Swiss typewriter, there was no ß key. It also has only lowercase umlauts ä, ö, and ü. A picture of a Swiss typewriter can be seen here.
The lack of that key has led to a subsequent deprecation of the ß overall.
edited 14 hours ago
V2Blast
1054
answered 18 hours ago
jknappen
10.1k22550
2
Related: That's also why Swiss town names don't start with Umlauts and use Oe Ae Ue instead (e.g. Oerlikon).
– Peter
6 hours ago
This doesn't sound like a sufficient reasoning (in the logical sense) to me. One could also state "a swiss typewriter needs [...]. Therefore on the Swiss typewriter, there are ßäöü and ´`^°"
– Sebastian Mach
5 hours ago
@SebastianMach back in the old days when typewriters where still mechanical, this wasn't that easy
– Josef
4 hours ago
@SebastianMach In the olden days, languages were far more beholden to practical considerations than they are now. And why wouldn't they be? This is how languages have always evolved: necessity as well as changing habits.
– Lightness Races in Orbit
3 hours ago
1
@Josef: It does not sound plausible to me that the magic upper limit of the number of types is reached exactly where regional characters come into play. A typewriter from the same epoch e.g. features (roughly) 77 keys: i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/bd/57/…
– Sebastian Mach
3 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
up vote
28
down vote
accepted
up vote
28
down vote
accepted
It is because of the typewriter. A Swiss typewriter needs to support three languages: German, French, and Italian. Therefore on the Swiss typewriter, there was no ß key. It also has only lowercase umlauts ä, ö, and ü. A picture of a Swiss typewriter can be seen here.
The lack of that key has led to a subsequent deprecation of the ß overall.
edited 14 hours ago
V2Blast
1054
answered 18 hours ago
jknappen
10.1k22550
It is because of the typewriter. A Swiss typewriter needs to support three languages: German, French, and Italian. Therefore on the Swiss typewriter, there was no ß key. It also has only lowercase umlauts ä, ö, and ü. A picture of a Swiss typewriter can be seen here.
The lack of that key has led to a subsequent deprecation of the ß overall.
edited 14 hours ago
V2Blast
1054
answered 18 hours ago
jknappen
10.1k22550
edited 14 hours ago
V2Blast
1054
edited 14 hours ago
V2Blast
1054
edited 14 hours ago
V2Blast
1054
1054
answered 18 hours ago
jknappen
10.1k22550
answered 18 hours ago
jknappen
10.1k22550
answered 18 hours ago
jknappen
10.1k22550
10.1k22550
2
Related: That's also why Swiss town names don't start with Umlauts and use Oe Ae Ue instead (e.g. Oerlikon).
– Peter
6 hours ago
This doesn't sound like a sufficient reasoning (in the logical sense) to me. One could also state "a swiss typewriter needs [...]. Therefore on the Swiss typewriter, there are ßäöü and ´`^°"
– Sebastian Mach
5 hours ago
@SebastianMach back in the old days when typewriters where still mechanical, this wasn't that easy
– Josef
4 hours ago
@SebastianMach In the olden days, languages were far more beholden to practical considerations than they are now. And why wouldn't they be? This is how languages have always evolved: necessity as well as changing habits.
– Lightness Races in Orbit
3 hours ago
1
@Josef: It does not sound plausible to me that the magic upper limit of the number of types is reached exactly where regional characters come into play. A typewriter from the same epoch e.g. features (roughly) 77 keys: i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/bd/57/…
– Sebastian Mach
3 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
2
Related: That's also why Swiss town names don't start with Umlauts and use Oe Ae Ue instead (e.g. Oerlikon).
– Peter
6 hours ago
This doesn't sound like a sufficient reasoning (in the logical sense) to me. One could also state "a swiss typewriter needs [...]. Therefore on the Swiss typewriter, there are ßäöü and ´`^°"
– Sebastian Mach
5 hours ago
@SebastianMach back in the old days when typewriters where still mechanical, this wasn't that easy
– Josef
4 hours ago
@SebastianMach In the olden days, languages were far more beholden to practical considerations than they are now. And why wouldn't they be? This is how languages have always evolved: necessity as well as changing habits.
– Lightness Races in Orbit
3 hours ago
1
@Josef: It does not sound plausible to me that the magic upper limit of the number of types is reached exactly where regional characters come into play. A typewriter from the same epoch e.g. features (roughly) 77 keys: i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/bd/57/…
– Sebastian Mach
3 hours ago
2
2
Related: That's also why Swiss town names don't start with Umlauts and use Oe Ae Ue instead (e.g. Oerlikon).
– Peter
6 hours ago
Related: That's also why Swiss town names don't start with Umlauts and use Oe Ae Ue instead (e.g. Oerlikon).
– Peter
6 hours ago
This doesn't sound like a sufficient reasoning (in the logical sense) to me. One could also state "a swiss typewriter needs [...]. Therefore on the Swiss typewriter, there are ßäöü and ´`^°"
– Sebastian Mach
5 hours ago
This doesn't sound like a sufficient reasoning (in the logical sense) to me. One could also state "a swiss typewriter needs [...]. Therefore on the Swiss typewriter, there are ßäöü and ´`^°"
– Sebastian Mach
5 hours ago
@SebastianMach back in the old days when typewriters where still mechanical, this wasn't that easy
– Josef
4 hours ago
@SebastianMach back in the old days when typewriters where still mechanical, this wasn't that easy
– Josef
4 hours ago
@SebastianMach In the olden days, languages were far more beholden to practical considerations than they are now. And why wouldn't they be? This is how languages have always evolved: necessity as well as changing habits.
– Lightness Races in Orbit
3 hours ago
@SebastianMach In the olden days, languages were far more beholden to practical considerations than they are now. And why wouldn't they be? This is how languages have always evolved: necessity as well as changing habits.
– Lightness Races in Orbit
3 hours ago
1
1
@Josef: It does not sound plausible to me that the magic upper limit of the number of types is reached exactly where regional characters come into play. A typewriter from the same epoch e.g. features (roughly) 77 keys: i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/bd/57/…
– Sebastian Mach
3 hours ago
@Josef: It does not sound plausible to me that the magic upper limit of the number of types is reached exactly where regional characters come into play. A typewriter from the same epoch e.g. features (roughly) 77 keys: i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/bd/57/…
– Sebastian Mach
3 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
up vote
13
down vote
The Swiss government has an explanation on p. 18. One contributing factor is typography, namely the rise of use of the Antiqua font, which was claimed to not include ß. I have no evaluation of the truthiness of that claim, for the relevant historical period, i.e. prior to 1901. It is certainly the case that its shape in Antique was not uniform.
The rules for using the letter have been complicated and much of the 1996 German spelling reform was about rules for s. As to why Switzerland was earlier and more radical in eliminating ß, this may be a cultural matter. Pairs like Flosse (fin), Floße (rafts), Busse (busses), Buße (penance) are rare and contextually not likely to lead to confusion.
One predicts that Masse (mass), Maße (dimensions) might still be distinguished with ss/ß.
answered 18 hours ago
user6726
32.9k12060
"more radical in eliminating ß" - this seems to imply the changes of the 1996 spelling reform had the intention of eliminating ß, which is not quite the case.
– O. R. Mapper
5 hours ago
5
Though it does give confusion with "Alkohol in Massen", which without the ess-tset to disambiguate can mean either "alcohol in moderation" or "alcohol en masse" ;)
– Muzer
4 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
13
down vote
The Swiss government has an explanation on p. 18. One contributing factor is typography, namely the rise of use of the Antiqua font, which was claimed to not include ß. I have no evaluation of the truthiness of that claim, for the relevant historical period, i.e. prior to 1901. It is certainly the case that its shape in Antique was not uniform.
The rules for using the letter have been complicated and much of the 1996 German spelling reform was about rules for s. As to why Switzerland was earlier and more radical in eliminating ß, this may be a cultural matter. Pairs like Flosse (fin), Floße (rafts), Busse (busses), Buße (penance) are rare and contextually not likely to lead to confusion.
One predicts that Masse (mass), Maße (dimensions) might still be distinguished with ss/ß.
answered 18 hours ago
user6726
32.9k12060
"more radical in eliminating ß" - this seems to imply the changes of the 1996 spelling reform had the intention of eliminating ß, which is not quite the case.
– O. R. Mapper
5 hours ago
5
Though it does give confusion with "Alkohol in Massen", which without the ess-tset to disambiguate can mean either "alcohol in moderation" or "alcohol en masse" ;)
– Muzer
4 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
13
down vote
up vote
13
down vote
The Swiss government has an explanation on p. 18. One contributing factor is typography, namely the rise of use of the Antiqua font, which was claimed to not include ß. I have no evaluation of the truthiness of that claim, for the relevant historical period, i.e. prior to 1901. It is certainly the case that its shape in Antique was not uniform.
The rules for using the letter have been complicated and much of the 1996 German spelling reform was about rules for s. As to why Switzerland was earlier and more radical in eliminating ß, this may be a cultural matter. Pairs like Flosse (fin), Floße (rafts), Busse (busses), Buße (penance) are rare and contextually not likely to lead to confusion.
One predicts that Masse (mass), Maße (dimensions) might still be distinguished with ss/ß.
answered 18 hours ago
user6726
32.9k12060
The Swiss government has an explanation on p. 18. One contributing factor is typography, namely the rise of use of the Antiqua font, which was claimed to not include ß. I have no evaluation of the truthiness of that claim, for the relevant historical period, i.e. prior to 1901. It is certainly the case that its shape in Antique was not uniform.
The rules for using the letter have been complicated and much of the 1996 German spelling reform was about rules for s. As to why Switzerland was earlier and more radical in eliminating ß, this may be a cultural matter. Pairs like Flosse (fin), Floße (rafts), Busse (busses), Buße (penance) are rare and contextually not likely to lead to confusion.
One predicts that Masse (mass), Maße (dimensions) might still be distinguished with ss/ß.
answered 18 hours ago
user6726
32.9k12060
answered 18 hours ago
user6726
32.9k12060
answered 18 hours ago
user6726
32.9k12060
answered 18 hours ago
user6726
32.9k12060
32.9k12060
"more radical in eliminating ß" - this seems to imply the changes of the 1996 spelling reform had the intention of eliminating ß, which is not quite the case.
– O. R. Mapper
5 hours ago
5
Though it does give confusion with "Alkohol in Massen", which without the ess-tset to disambiguate can mean either "alcohol in moderation" or "alcohol en masse" ;)
– Muzer
4 hours ago
add a comment |
"more radical in eliminating ß" - this seems to imply the changes of the 1996 spelling reform had the intention of eliminating ß, which is not quite the case.
– O. R. Mapper
5 hours ago
5
Though it does give confusion with "Alkohol in Massen", which without the ess-tset to disambiguate can mean either "alcohol in moderation" or "alcohol en masse" ;)
– Muzer
4 hours ago
"more radical in eliminating ß" - this seems to imply the changes of the 1996 spelling reform had the intention of eliminating ß, which is not quite the case.
– O. R. Mapper
5 hours ago
"more radical in eliminating ß" - this seems to imply the changes of the 1996 spelling reform had the intention of eliminating ß, which is not quite the case.
– O. R. Mapper
5 hours ago
5
5
Though it does give confusion with "Alkohol in Massen", which without the ess-tset to disambiguate can mean either "alcohol in moderation" or "alcohol en masse" ;)
– Muzer
4 hours ago
Though it does give confusion with "Alkohol in Massen", which without the ess-tset to disambiguate can mean either "alcohol in moderation" or "alcohol en masse" ;)
– Muzer
4 hours ago
add a comment |
alecxe is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
alecxe is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
alecxe is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
alecxe is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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