Has an encirclement ever succeeded with numerically inferior cavalry?
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This is a follow up to my previous question. In all the examples given there was some other advantage that decided the battle and not encirclement. For example at Narva
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Narva_(1700)
They attacked inexperienced Russian regiments and crumbled them one by one.
Also Finnish Motti tactics in the winter war, Teutoburg etc are a type of divide and conquer ambush tactic and not simply an encirclement. At Alesia there are no historical details but I have not seen evidence Rome had less cavalry than the enemy.
I cant find any examples where the encircler didn't have have a superior local number of motivated cavalry.
Has an encirclement ever succeeded with numerically inferior cavalry?
war
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
This is a follow up to my previous question. In all the examples given there was some other advantage that decided the battle and not encirclement. For example at Narva
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Narva_(1700)
They attacked inexperienced Russian regiments and crumbled them one by one.
Also Finnish Motti tactics in the winter war, Teutoburg etc are a type of divide and conquer ambush tactic and not simply an encirclement. At Alesia there are no historical details but I have not seen evidence Rome had less cavalry than the enemy.
I cant find any examples where the encircler didn't have have a superior local number of motivated cavalry.
Has an encirclement ever succeeded with numerically inferior cavalry?
war
New contributor
According to the Swedish version of the wiki page you link to (I cannot find the 2nd number in the English one), the Swedes had 4300 and the Russians 6000 cavalrymen at Narva. But I don't think they were so important in the actual battle.
– Tomas By
4 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
This is a follow up to my previous question. In all the examples given there was some other advantage that decided the battle and not encirclement. For example at Narva
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Narva_(1700)
They attacked inexperienced Russian regiments and crumbled them one by one.
Also Finnish Motti tactics in the winter war, Teutoburg etc are a type of divide and conquer ambush tactic and not simply an encirclement. At Alesia there are no historical details but I have not seen evidence Rome had less cavalry than the enemy.
I cant find any examples where the encircler didn't have have a superior local number of motivated cavalry.
Has an encirclement ever succeeded with numerically inferior cavalry?
war
New contributor
This is a follow up to my previous question. In all the examples given there was some other advantage that decided the battle and not encirclement. For example at Narva
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Narva_(1700)
They attacked inexperienced Russian regiments and crumbled them one by one.
Also Finnish Motti tactics in the winter war, Teutoburg etc are a type of divide and conquer ambush tactic and not simply an encirclement. At Alesia there are no historical details but I have not seen evidence Rome had less cavalry than the enemy.
I cant find any examples where the encircler didn't have have a superior local number of motivated cavalry.
Has an encirclement ever succeeded with numerically inferior cavalry?
war
war
New contributor
New contributor
edited 4 hours ago
KorvinStarmast
3,12721729
3,12721729
New contributor
asked 4 hours ago
John
171
171
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According to the Swedish version of the wiki page you link to (I cannot find the 2nd number in the English one), the Swedes had 4300 and the Russians 6000 cavalrymen at Narva. But I don't think they were so important in the actual battle.
– Tomas By
4 hours ago
add a comment |
According to the Swedish version of the wiki page you link to (I cannot find the 2nd number in the English one), the Swedes had 4300 and the Russians 6000 cavalrymen at Narva. But I don't think they were so important in the actual battle.
– Tomas By
4 hours ago
According to the Swedish version of the wiki page you link to (I cannot find the 2nd number in the English one), the Swedes had 4300 and the Russians 6000 cavalrymen at Narva. But I don't think they were so important in the actual battle.
– Tomas By
4 hours ago
According to the Swedish version of the wiki page you link to (I cannot find the 2nd number in the English one), the Swedes had 4300 and the Russians 6000 cavalrymen at Narva. But I don't think they were so important in the actual battle.
– Tomas By
4 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
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up vote
2
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The Battle of Cowpens where 300 British cavalry (250 of the British Legion plus 50 of the 17th Light Dragoons) outnumbered American Cavalry of only ~180 men and horses ("82 Continental light dragoons; 55 state dragoons; 45 militia dragoons") by almost 2:1.
Total forces for both sides were about 1,150 British against about 1,900 (most poorly trained and disciplined militia) Americans.
Caught in a clever double envelopment that has been compared with the Battle of Cannae in ancient times, many of the British surrendered.
AN interesting note - in both this battle and Cannae, Morgan and Hannibal leverage the very weakness of their main battle line into a tactical advantage that sets up the double envelopment.
1
Do Dragoons really count as cavalry??!!?!one. ducks and hides
– Samuel Russell
18 mins ago
1
@SamuelRussell: Emmanuel Grouchy's dragoons were always competent cavalry. Prior to the 1840's I doubt a British dragoon, light or heavy, could have distinguished a carbine from a pistol.
– Pieter Geerkens
5 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
I'm not sure if this counts as a valid answer, but ships of the line are always superior to cavalry. Or, in this case: nearly always.
In 1793 the Dutch fleet was frozen at anchor, moored close to Den Helder, near the island of Texel. That winter was quite severe, even the Rhine river froze over. The Dutch republic was at war with the French republic - and losing. A French cavalry unit captured the fleet intact.
General Pichechru (in Dutch he's known as Pietje Cru) knew the ships were iced in. He ordered the very appropriate named general Jan Willem de Winter to capture the fleet intact. He used hussars and infantry, carried on the backs of the horses. The hooves were covered with fabric to muffle the sound. The hussars rode up to the ships, quietly, and the infantry boarded the ships. The fleet was captured intact, without casualties.
That capture ended the war. It's one of the very few examples in history of cavalry capturing a fleet.
1
I learned that story at my father's knee - well done!
– Pieter Geerkens
1 hour ago
1
@PieterGeerkens I think this is the only example in history of general Winter actually being present in the flesh on a battlefield.
– Jos
43 mins ago
I think the Gates of Moscow in 1940-1 is another clear example. That winter was much harsher than usual.
– Pieter Geerkens
41 mins ago
@PieterGeerkens Oh. Was there a general (de) Winter present? I meant literally, not figuratively. The chap capturing that fleet was named de Winter.
– Jos
30 mins ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
The Battle of Cowpens where 300 British cavalry (250 of the British Legion plus 50 of the 17th Light Dragoons) outnumbered American Cavalry of only ~180 men and horses ("82 Continental light dragoons; 55 state dragoons; 45 militia dragoons") by almost 2:1.
Total forces for both sides were about 1,150 British against about 1,900 (most poorly trained and disciplined militia) Americans.
Caught in a clever double envelopment that has been compared with the Battle of Cannae in ancient times, many of the British surrendered.
AN interesting note - in both this battle and Cannae, Morgan and Hannibal leverage the very weakness of their main battle line into a tactical advantage that sets up the double envelopment.
1
Do Dragoons really count as cavalry??!!?!one. ducks and hides
– Samuel Russell
18 mins ago
1
@SamuelRussell: Emmanuel Grouchy's dragoons were always competent cavalry. Prior to the 1840's I doubt a British dragoon, light or heavy, could have distinguished a carbine from a pistol.
– Pieter Geerkens
5 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
The Battle of Cowpens where 300 British cavalry (250 of the British Legion plus 50 of the 17th Light Dragoons) outnumbered American Cavalry of only ~180 men and horses ("82 Continental light dragoons; 55 state dragoons; 45 militia dragoons") by almost 2:1.
Total forces for both sides were about 1,150 British against about 1,900 (most poorly trained and disciplined militia) Americans.
Caught in a clever double envelopment that has been compared with the Battle of Cannae in ancient times, many of the British surrendered.
AN interesting note - in both this battle and Cannae, Morgan and Hannibal leverage the very weakness of their main battle line into a tactical advantage that sets up the double envelopment.
1
Do Dragoons really count as cavalry??!!?!one. ducks and hides
– Samuel Russell
18 mins ago
1
@SamuelRussell: Emmanuel Grouchy's dragoons were always competent cavalry. Prior to the 1840's I doubt a British dragoon, light or heavy, could have distinguished a carbine from a pistol.
– Pieter Geerkens
5 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
The Battle of Cowpens where 300 British cavalry (250 of the British Legion plus 50 of the 17th Light Dragoons) outnumbered American Cavalry of only ~180 men and horses ("82 Continental light dragoons; 55 state dragoons; 45 militia dragoons") by almost 2:1.
Total forces for both sides were about 1,150 British against about 1,900 (most poorly trained and disciplined militia) Americans.
Caught in a clever double envelopment that has been compared with the Battle of Cannae in ancient times, many of the British surrendered.
AN interesting note - in both this battle and Cannae, Morgan and Hannibal leverage the very weakness of their main battle line into a tactical advantage that sets up the double envelopment.
The Battle of Cowpens where 300 British cavalry (250 of the British Legion plus 50 of the 17th Light Dragoons) outnumbered American Cavalry of only ~180 men and horses ("82 Continental light dragoons; 55 state dragoons; 45 militia dragoons") by almost 2:1.
Total forces for both sides were about 1,150 British against about 1,900 (most poorly trained and disciplined militia) Americans.
Caught in a clever double envelopment that has been compared with the Battle of Cannae in ancient times, many of the British surrendered.
AN interesting note - in both this battle and Cannae, Morgan and Hannibal leverage the very weakness of their main battle line into a tactical advantage that sets up the double envelopment.
edited 2 hours ago
answered 4 hours ago
Pieter Geerkens
38k6110182
38k6110182
1
Do Dragoons really count as cavalry??!!?!one. ducks and hides
– Samuel Russell
18 mins ago
1
@SamuelRussell: Emmanuel Grouchy's dragoons were always competent cavalry. Prior to the 1840's I doubt a British dragoon, light or heavy, could have distinguished a carbine from a pistol.
– Pieter Geerkens
5 mins ago
add a comment |
1
Do Dragoons really count as cavalry??!!?!one. ducks and hides
– Samuel Russell
18 mins ago
1
@SamuelRussell: Emmanuel Grouchy's dragoons were always competent cavalry. Prior to the 1840's I doubt a British dragoon, light or heavy, could have distinguished a carbine from a pistol.
– Pieter Geerkens
5 mins ago
1
1
Do Dragoons really count as cavalry??!!?!one. ducks and hides
– Samuel Russell
18 mins ago
Do Dragoons really count as cavalry??!!?!one. ducks and hides
– Samuel Russell
18 mins ago
1
1
@SamuelRussell: Emmanuel Grouchy's dragoons were always competent cavalry. Prior to the 1840's I doubt a British dragoon, light or heavy, could have distinguished a carbine from a pistol.
– Pieter Geerkens
5 mins ago
@SamuelRussell: Emmanuel Grouchy's dragoons were always competent cavalry. Prior to the 1840's I doubt a British dragoon, light or heavy, could have distinguished a carbine from a pistol.
– Pieter Geerkens
5 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
I'm not sure if this counts as a valid answer, but ships of the line are always superior to cavalry. Or, in this case: nearly always.
In 1793 the Dutch fleet was frozen at anchor, moored close to Den Helder, near the island of Texel. That winter was quite severe, even the Rhine river froze over. The Dutch republic was at war with the French republic - and losing. A French cavalry unit captured the fleet intact.
General Pichechru (in Dutch he's known as Pietje Cru) knew the ships were iced in. He ordered the very appropriate named general Jan Willem de Winter to capture the fleet intact. He used hussars and infantry, carried on the backs of the horses. The hooves were covered with fabric to muffle the sound. The hussars rode up to the ships, quietly, and the infantry boarded the ships. The fleet was captured intact, without casualties.
That capture ended the war. It's one of the very few examples in history of cavalry capturing a fleet.
1
I learned that story at my father's knee - well done!
– Pieter Geerkens
1 hour ago
1
@PieterGeerkens I think this is the only example in history of general Winter actually being present in the flesh on a battlefield.
– Jos
43 mins ago
I think the Gates of Moscow in 1940-1 is another clear example. That winter was much harsher than usual.
– Pieter Geerkens
41 mins ago
@PieterGeerkens Oh. Was there a general (de) Winter present? I meant literally, not figuratively. The chap capturing that fleet was named de Winter.
– Jos
30 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
I'm not sure if this counts as a valid answer, but ships of the line are always superior to cavalry. Or, in this case: nearly always.
In 1793 the Dutch fleet was frozen at anchor, moored close to Den Helder, near the island of Texel. That winter was quite severe, even the Rhine river froze over. The Dutch republic was at war with the French republic - and losing. A French cavalry unit captured the fleet intact.
General Pichechru (in Dutch he's known as Pietje Cru) knew the ships were iced in. He ordered the very appropriate named general Jan Willem de Winter to capture the fleet intact. He used hussars and infantry, carried on the backs of the horses. The hooves were covered with fabric to muffle the sound. The hussars rode up to the ships, quietly, and the infantry boarded the ships. The fleet was captured intact, without casualties.
That capture ended the war. It's one of the very few examples in history of cavalry capturing a fleet.
1
I learned that story at my father's knee - well done!
– Pieter Geerkens
1 hour ago
1
@PieterGeerkens I think this is the only example in history of general Winter actually being present in the flesh on a battlefield.
– Jos
43 mins ago
I think the Gates of Moscow in 1940-1 is another clear example. That winter was much harsher than usual.
– Pieter Geerkens
41 mins ago
@PieterGeerkens Oh. Was there a general (de) Winter present? I meant literally, not figuratively. The chap capturing that fleet was named de Winter.
– Jos
30 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
I'm not sure if this counts as a valid answer, but ships of the line are always superior to cavalry. Or, in this case: nearly always.
In 1793 the Dutch fleet was frozen at anchor, moored close to Den Helder, near the island of Texel. That winter was quite severe, even the Rhine river froze over. The Dutch republic was at war with the French republic - and losing. A French cavalry unit captured the fleet intact.
General Pichechru (in Dutch he's known as Pietje Cru) knew the ships were iced in. He ordered the very appropriate named general Jan Willem de Winter to capture the fleet intact. He used hussars and infantry, carried on the backs of the horses. The hooves were covered with fabric to muffle the sound. The hussars rode up to the ships, quietly, and the infantry boarded the ships. The fleet was captured intact, without casualties.
That capture ended the war. It's one of the very few examples in history of cavalry capturing a fleet.
I'm not sure if this counts as a valid answer, but ships of the line are always superior to cavalry. Or, in this case: nearly always.
In 1793 the Dutch fleet was frozen at anchor, moored close to Den Helder, near the island of Texel. That winter was quite severe, even the Rhine river froze over. The Dutch republic was at war with the French republic - and losing. A French cavalry unit captured the fleet intact.
General Pichechru (in Dutch he's known as Pietje Cru) knew the ships were iced in. He ordered the very appropriate named general Jan Willem de Winter to capture the fleet intact. He used hussars and infantry, carried on the backs of the horses. The hooves were covered with fabric to muffle the sound. The hussars rode up to the ships, quietly, and the infantry boarded the ships. The fleet was captured intact, without casualties.
That capture ended the war. It's one of the very few examples in history of cavalry capturing a fleet.
edited 4 mins ago
answered 1 hour ago
Jos
8,01311842
8,01311842
1
I learned that story at my father's knee - well done!
– Pieter Geerkens
1 hour ago
1
@PieterGeerkens I think this is the only example in history of general Winter actually being present in the flesh on a battlefield.
– Jos
43 mins ago
I think the Gates of Moscow in 1940-1 is another clear example. That winter was much harsher than usual.
– Pieter Geerkens
41 mins ago
@PieterGeerkens Oh. Was there a general (de) Winter present? I meant literally, not figuratively. The chap capturing that fleet was named de Winter.
– Jos
30 mins ago
add a comment |
1
I learned that story at my father's knee - well done!
– Pieter Geerkens
1 hour ago
1
@PieterGeerkens I think this is the only example in history of general Winter actually being present in the flesh on a battlefield.
– Jos
43 mins ago
I think the Gates of Moscow in 1940-1 is another clear example. That winter was much harsher than usual.
– Pieter Geerkens
41 mins ago
@PieterGeerkens Oh. Was there a general (de) Winter present? I meant literally, not figuratively. The chap capturing that fleet was named de Winter.
– Jos
30 mins ago
1
1
I learned that story at my father's knee - well done!
– Pieter Geerkens
1 hour ago
I learned that story at my father's knee - well done!
– Pieter Geerkens
1 hour ago
1
1
@PieterGeerkens I think this is the only example in history of general Winter actually being present in the flesh on a battlefield.
– Jos
43 mins ago
@PieterGeerkens I think this is the only example in history of general Winter actually being present in the flesh on a battlefield.
– Jos
43 mins ago
I think the Gates of Moscow in 1940-1 is another clear example. That winter was much harsher than usual.
– Pieter Geerkens
41 mins ago
I think the Gates of Moscow in 1940-1 is another clear example. That winter was much harsher than usual.
– Pieter Geerkens
41 mins ago
@PieterGeerkens Oh. Was there a general (de) Winter present? I meant literally, not figuratively. The chap capturing that fleet was named de Winter.
– Jos
30 mins ago
@PieterGeerkens Oh. Was there a general (de) Winter present? I meant literally, not figuratively. The chap capturing that fleet was named de Winter.
– Jos
30 mins ago
add a comment |
John is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
John is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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According to the Swedish version of the wiki page you link to (I cannot find the 2nd number in the English one), the Swedes had 4300 and the Russians 6000 cavalrymen at Narva. But I don't think they were so important in the actual battle.
– Tomas By
4 hours ago