Choosing delta for a given epsilon
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How does the author come to the conclusion that delta has to be the min{1,€/5}. Why that 1? Can it be any number and we get accordingly the epsilon value? In general finding a delta for any epsilon is purely by some guesswork? I can understand why this values work but the ‘why’ question is troubling me. I’m not very comfortable and unable to convince myself perfectly.
real-analysis epsilon-delta
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up vote
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How does the author come to the conclusion that delta has to be the min{1,€/5}. Why that 1? Can it be any number and we get accordingly the epsilon value? In general finding a delta for any epsilon is purely by some guesswork? I can understand why this values work but the ‘why’ question is troubling me. I’m not very comfortable and unable to convince myself perfectly.
real-analysis epsilon-delta
Why use the Euro sign?
– Lord Shark the Unknown
35 mins ago
Addressing the why? The initial argument is imprecise: ..closer and closer to 2, therefore closer and closer to 4... Strictly speaking, no one has a clue what it means. The epsilon-delta language is a precise tool to show what the limit is equal to.
– Alvin Lepik
34 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
How does the author come to the conclusion that delta has to be the min{1,€/5}. Why that 1? Can it be any number and we get accordingly the epsilon value? In general finding a delta for any epsilon is purely by some guesswork? I can understand why this values work but the ‘why’ question is troubling me. I’m not very comfortable and unable to convince myself perfectly.
real-analysis epsilon-delta
How does the author come to the conclusion that delta has to be the min{1,€/5}. Why that 1? Can it be any number and we get accordingly the epsilon value? In general finding a delta for any epsilon is purely by some guesswork? I can understand why this values work but the ‘why’ question is troubling me. I’m not very comfortable and unable to convince myself perfectly.
real-analysis epsilon-delta
real-analysis epsilon-delta
asked 43 mins ago
Daniel Evans
1746
1746
Why use the Euro sign?
– Lord Shark the Unknown
35 mins ago
Addressing the why? The initial argument is imprecise: ..closer and closer to 2, therefore closer and closer to 4... Strictly speaking, no one has a clue what it means. The epsilon-delta language is a precise tool to show what the limit is equal to.
– Alvin Lepik
34 mins ago
add a comment |
Why use the Euro sign?
– Lord Shark the Unknown
35 mins ago
Addressing the why? The initial argument is imprecise: ..closer and closer to 2, therefore closer and closer to 4... Strictly speaking, no one has a clue what it means. The epsilon-delta language is a precise tool to show what the limit is equal to.
– Alvin Lepik
34 mins ago
Why use the Euro sign?
– Lord Shark the Unknown
35 mins ago
Why use the Euro sign?
– Lord Shark the Unknown
35 mins ago
Addressing the why? The initial argument is imprecise: ..closer and closer to 2, therefore closer and closer to 4... Strictly speaking, no one has a clue what it means. The epsilon-delta language is a precise tool to show what the limit is equal to.
– Alvin Lepik
34 mins ago
Addressing the why? The initial argument is imprecise: ..closer and closer to 2, therefore closer and closer to 4... Strictly speaking, no one has a clue what it means. The epsilon-delta language is a precise tool to show what the limit is equal to.
– Alvin Lepik
34 mins ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
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up vote
4
down vote
This is one of the most annoying aspects of teaching a first course in analysis. The author of such a proof has always worked backwards, and has then rewritten the proof (erasing the entire process of coming up with it) so that it looks completely magic.
This kind of proof is generated as follows.
- Intuit that the limit is $4$.
- Imagining that the limit is indeed $4$, the proof will look like:
Let $epsilon > 0$, and choose $delta = mathrm{XXX}$. Pick $x$ to be within $delta$ of $2$. Then $|x^2 - 4| < epsilon$, which completes the proof.
- Manipulate the final line until we can get something out of it.
Let $epsilon > 0$, and choose $delta = mathrm{XXX}$. Pick $x$ to be within $delta$ of $2$. Then $|x^2 - 4| = |x+2| |x-2| < epsilon$, which completes the proof.
- Identify any terms which we can bound uniformly by picking $delta$. This is where the $1$ comes from, and it only mattered that it was a positive constant.
Let $epsilon > 0$, and choose $delta = min(1, mathrm{XXX})$. Pick $x$ to be within $delta$ of $2$. Then $|x^2-4| = |x+2| |x-2| < 5|x-2| < epsilon$, which completes the proof.
- Repeat by successively refining $delta$.
Let $epsilon > 0$, and choose $delta = min(1, frac{epsilon}{5})$. Pick $x$ to be within $delta$ of $2$. Then $|x^2-4| = |x+2| |x-2| < 5 cdot frac{epsilon}{5} = epsilon$, which completes the proof.
- Pretend that none of the above happened, and just write down the proof in its final form.
Very strong explanation!
– James
32 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
I can relate to your difficulties. Before I answer your question, I would like to emphasize that in $varepsilon-delta$ proof, you need to do the "calculation" in advance.
Now, here is the thing... The concept of limit is probably best explained as moving closer and closer to a certain value. In your problem, $x$ is moving closer and closer to $2$. How close? That depends on the choice of your $varepsilon>0$ in the first place. Now, understand that $x$ moves closer to $2$ means you can "bound" $x$. In this case, I can bound $x$ with any number (usually $1$ for simplicity and easy calculation). If you are in doubt, you can try to use another number such as $sqrt{2}$ but maybe the calculation will be not as good sometimes.
Also, "guess work" as you mention is not entirely wrong. However, you need to be "smart" to guess the correct answer. In this case, do "rough" calculation in advance.
So, let's think in different perspective. This is our goal :
$$|x^{2} - 4| < varepsilon$$
and this is our starting point :
$$ |x- 2| < delta$$
Now, consider our goal as starting point :
begin{align*}
&|x^2 - 4| = |x-2|,|x+2| < varepsilon \
&|x-2| < frac{varepsilon}{|x+2|}
end{align*}
Now, we want to bound $x$. So, let's use different number, for example $frac{1}{2}$. Assume $|x-2|<frac{1}{2}$ then we have $frac{5}{2}< x+ 2 <frac{7}{2}$ which means $frac{5}{2}< |x+2| < frac{7}{2}$ and now we know that $frac{2}{7} < frac{1}{|x+4|} < frac{2}{5}$
Going back to the previous inequality, we obtain
$$|x-2| < frac{varepsilon}{|x+2|}<frac{2}{5}varepsilon$$
Now, we can find $delta = min {frac{1}{2}, frac{2}{5}varepsilon}$ as our bound and start the proof. What I want to demonstrate here is for you to realize that "guess work" needs to be smartly done and there are a lot of answers to prove.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
I thought I would add some thoughts on what exactly is going on with $min(1,cdots)$. Note that this applies equally well to the same thing in proofs of continuity.
Limits only care about what happens very close to the point in question. In this case the point $x=2$. It doesn't care what happens at $x=1000$, for instance. Thus we care about small values of $epsilon$ and $delta$. So as long as $epsilon$ is small, choosing $delta$ to be $frac{epsilon}{5}$ works fine, and we're done.
However, while limits only really care about small $epsilon$, the definition says you should be able to pick a $delta$ for any epsilon. This is partly in order to be brief, and partly in order to be Imperial as to what constitutes "small". The definition may as well have said "For any $epsilon$ with $0<epsilon<1$, there is a $delta>0$ such that ..." and that would've been equivalent.
However, that's a bit longer to write, and it makes $1$ look like some kind of special number in this context, which it is not. Perhaps more importantly, some times you need to specifically use something like $epsilon=2$ in a proof, and in that case, it's easier if the definition didn't have a limitation on $epsilon$.
So, with that said, when we pick our $delta$, we mostly care about small $epsilon$, but we have to take into account that someone, somewhere, may one day pick $epsilon=1000$. And in that case $delta=200$ is way too big.
This can be solved in two ways. One way is to find an expression for $delta$ which always works. That's complicated and will involve square roots, at the very least. The standard way, which is used here, is to declare that if $epsilon$ is larger than some bound (in this case $5$), we will use $delta=1$. If $epsilon$ is smaller, we will use $fracepsilon5$.
There is nothing special about $1$ in this case. It's just that some number must be picked, and $1$ is a nice number most of the time.
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
This is one of the most annoying aspects of teaching a first course in analysis. The author of such a proof has always worked backwards, and has then rewritten the proof (erasing the entire process of coming up with it) so that it looks completely magic.
This kind of proof is generated as follows.
- Intuit that the limit is $4$.
- Imagining that the limit is indeed $4$, the proof will look like:
Let $epsilon > 0$, and choose $delta = mathrm{XXX}$. Pick $x$ to be within $delta$ of $2$. Then $|x^2 - 4| < epsilon$, which completes the proof.
- Manipulate the final line until we can get something out of it.
Let $epsilon > 0$, and choose $delta = mathrm{XXX}$. Pick $x$ to be within $delta$ of $2$. Then $|x^2 - 4| = |x+2| |x-2| < epsilon$, which completes the proof.
- Identify any terms which we can bound uniformly by picking $delta$. This is where the $1$ comes from, and it only mattered that it was a positive constant.
Let $epsilon > 0$, and choose $delta = min(1, mathrm{XXX})$. Pick $x$ to be within $delta$ of $2$. Then $|x^2-4| = |x+2| |x-2| < 5|x-2| < epsilon$, which completes the proof.
- Repeat by successively refining $delta$.
Let $epsilon > 0$, and choose $delta = min(1, frac{epsilon}{5})$. Pick $x$ to be within $delta$ of $2$. Then $|x^2-4| = |x+2| |x-2| < 5 cdot frac{epsilon}{5} = epsilon$, which completes the proof.
- Pretend that none of the above happened, and just write down the proof in its final form.
Very strong explanation!
– James
32 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
This is one of the most annoying aspects of teaching a first course in analysis. The author of such a proof has always worked backwards, and has then rewritten the proof (erasing the entire process of coming up with it) so that it looks completely magic.
This kind of proof is generated as follows.
- Intuit that the limit is $4$.
- Imagining that the limit is indeed $4$, the proof will look like:
Let $epsilon > 0$, and choose $delta = mathrm{XXX}$. Pick $x$ to be within $delta$ of $2$. Then $|x^2 - 4| < epsilon$, which completes the proof.
- Manipulate the final line until we can get something out of it.
Let $epsilon > 0$, and choose $delta = mathrm{XXX}$. Pick $x$ to be within $delta$ of $2$. Then $|x^2 - 4| = |x+2| |x-2| < epsilon$, which completes the proof.
- Identify any terms which we can bound uniformly by picking $delta$. This is where the $1$ comes from, and it only mattered that it was a positive constant.
Let $epsilon > 0$, and choose $delta = min(1, mathrm{XXX})$. Pick $x$ to be within $delta$ of $2$. Then $|x^2-4| = |x+2| |x-2| < 5|x-2| < epsilon$, which completes the proof.
- Repeat by successively refining $delta$.
Let $epsilon > 0$, and choose $delta = min(1, frac{epsilon}{5})$. Pick $x$ to be within $delta$ of $2$. Then $|x^2-4| = |x+2| |x-2| < 5 cdot frac{epsilon}{5} = epsilon$, which completes the proof.
- Pretend that none of the above happened, and just write down the proof in its final form.
Very strong explanation!
– James
32 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
This is one of the most annoying aspects of teaching a first course in analysis. The author of such a proof has always worked backwards, and has then rewritten the proof (erasing the entire process of coming up with it) so that it looks completely magic.
This kind of proof is generated as follows.
- Intuit that the limit is $4$.
- Imagining that the limit is indeed $4$, the proof will look like:
Let $epsilon > 0$, and choose $delta = mathrm{XXX}$. Pick $x$ to be within $delta$ of $2$. Then $|x^2 - 4| < epsilon$, which completes the proof.
- Manipulate the final line until we can get something out of it.
Let $epsilon > 0$, and choose $delta = mathrm{XXX}$. Pick $x$ to be within $delta$ of $2$. Then $|x^2 - 4| = |x+2| |x-2| < epsilon$, which completes the proof.
- Identify any terms which we can bound uniformly by picking $delta$. This is where the $1$ comes from, and it only mattered that it was a positive constant.
Let $epsilon > 0$, and choose $delta = min(1, mathrm{XXX})$. Pick $x$ to be within $delta$ of $2$. Then $|x^2-4| = |x+2| |x-2| < 5|x-2| < epsilon$, which completes the proof.
- Repeat by successively refining $delta$.
Let $epsilon > 0$, and choose $delta = min(1, frac{epsilon}{5})$. Pick $x$ to be within $delta$ of $2$. Then $|x^2-4| = |x+2| |x-2| < 5 cdot frac{epsilon}{5} = epsilon$, which completes the proof.
- Pretend that none of the above happened, and just write down the proof in its final form.
This is one of the most annoying aspects of teaching a first course in analysis. The author of such a proof has always worked backwards, and has then rewritten the proof (erasing the entire process of coming up with it) so that it looks completely magic.
This kind of proof is generated as follows.
- Intuit that the limit is $4$.
- Imagining that the limit is indeed $4$, the proof will look like:
Let $epsilon > 0$, and choose $delta = mathrm{XXX}$. Pick $x$ to be within $delta$ of $2$. Then $|x^2 - 4| < epsilon$, which completes the proof.
- Manipulate the final line until we can get something out of it.
Let $epsilon > 0$, and choose $delta = mathrm{XXX}$. Pick $x$ to be within $delta$ of $2$. Then $|x^2 - 4| = |x+2| |x-2| < epsilon$, which completes the proof.
- Identify any terms which we can bound uniformly by picking $delta$. This is where the $1$ comes from, and it only mattered that it was a positive constant.
Let $epsilon > 0$, and choose $delta = min(1, mathrm{XXX})$. Pick $x$ to be within $delta$ of $2$. Then $|x^2-4| = |x+2| |x-2| < 5|x-2| < epsilon$, which completes the proof.
- Repeat by successively refining $delta$.
Let $epsilon > 0$, and choose $delta = min(1, frac{epsilon}{5})$. Pick $x$ to be within $delta$ of $2$. Then $|x^2-4| = |x+2| |x-2| < 5 cdot frac{epsilon}{5} = epsilon$, which completes the proof.
- Pretend that none of the above happened, and just write down the proof in its final form.
edited 32 mins ago
answered 34 mins ago
Patrick Stevens
28k52873
28k52873
Very strong explanation!
– James
32 mins ago
add a comment |
Very strong explanation!
– James
32 mins ago
Very strong explanation!
– James
32 mins ago
Very strong explanation!
– James
32 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
I can relate to your difficulties. Before I answer your question, I would like to emphasize that in $varepsilon-delta$ proof, you need to do the "calculation" in advance.
Now, here is the thing... The concept of limit is probably best explained as moving closer and closer to a certain value. In your problem, $x$ is moving closer and closer to $2$. How close? That depends on the choice of your $varepsilon>0$ in the first place. Now, understand that $x$ moves closer to $2$ means you can "bound" $x$. In this case, I can bound $x$ with any number (usually $1$ for simplicity and easy calculation). If you are in doubt, you can try to use another number such as $sqrt{2}$ but maybe the calculation will be not as good sometimes.
Also, "guess work" as you mention is not entirely wrong. However, you need to be "smart" to guess the correct answer. In this case, do "rough" calculation in advance.
So, let's think in different perspective. This is our goal :
$$|x^{2} - 4| < varepsilon$$
and this is our starting point :
$$ |x- 2| < delta$$
Now, consider our goal as starting point :
begin{align*}
&|x^2 - 4| = |x-2|,|x+2| < varepsilon \
&|x-2| < frac{varepsilon}{|x+2|}
end{align*}
Now, we want to bound $x$. So, let's use different number, for example $frac{1}{2}$. Assume $|x-2|<frac{1}{2}$ then we have $frac{5}{2}< x+ 2 <frac{7}{2}$ which means $frac{5}{2}< |x+2| < frac{7}{2}$ and now we know that $frac{2}{7} < frac{1}{|x+4|} < frac{2}{5}$
Going back to the previous inequality, we obtain
$$|x-2| < frac{varepsilon}{|x+2|}<frac{2}{5}varepsilon$$
Now, we can find $delta = min {frac{1}{2}, frac{2}{5}varepsilon}$ as our bound and start the proof. What I want to demonstrate here is for you to realize that "guess work" needs to be smartly done and there are a lot of answers to prove.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
I can relate to your difficulties. Before I answer your question, I would like to emphasize that in $varepsilon-delta$ proof, you need to do the "calculation" in advance.
Now, here is the thing... The concept of limit is probably best explained as moving closer and closer to a certain value. In your problem, $x$ is moving closer and closer to $2$. How close? That depends on the choice of your $varepsilon>0$ in the first place. Now, understand that $x$ moves closer to $2$ means you can "bound" $x$. In this case, I can bound $x$ with any number (usually $1$ for simplicity and easy calculation). If you are in doubt, you can try to use another number such as $sqrt{2}$ but maybe the calculation will be not as good sometimes.
Also, "guess work" as you mention is not entirely wrong. However, you need to be "smart" to guess the correct answer. In this case, do "rough" calculation in advance.
So, let's think in different perspective. This is our goal :
$$|x^{2} - 4| < varepsilon$$
and this is our starting point :
$$ |x- 2| < delta$$
Now, consider our goal as starting point :
begin{align*}
&|x^2 - 4| = |x-2|,|x+2| < varepsilon \
&|x-2| < frac{varepsilon}{|x+2|}
end{align*}
Now, we want to bound $x$. So, let's use different number, for example $frac{1}{2}$. Assume $|x-2|<frac{1}{2}$ then we have $frac{5}{2}< x+ 2 <frac{7}{2}$ which means $frac{5}{2}< |x+2| < frac{7}{2}$ and now we know that $frac{2}{7} < frac{1}{|x+4|} < frac{2}{5}$
Going back to the previous inequality, we obtain
$$|x-2| < frac{varepsilon}{|x+2|}<frac{2}{5}varepsilon$$
Now, we can find $delta = min {frac{1}{2}, frac{2}{5}varepsilon}$ as our bound and start the proof. What I want to demonstrate here is for you to realize that "guess work" needs to be smartly done and there are a lot of answers to prove.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
I can relate to your difficulties. Before I answer your question, I would like to emphasize that in $varepsilon-delta$ proof, you need to do the "calculation" in advance.
Now, here is the thing... The concept of limit is probably best explained as moving closer and closer to a certain value. In your problem, $x$ is moving closer and closer to $2$. How close? That depends on the choice of your $varepsilon>0$ in the first place. Now, understand that $x$ moves closer to $2$ means you can "bound" $x$. In this case, I can bound $x$ with any number (usually $1$ for simplicity and easy calculation). If you are in doubt, you can try to use another number such as $sqrt{2}$ but maybe the calculation will be not as good sometimes.
Also, "guess work" as you mention is not entirely wrong. However, you need to be "smart" to guess the correct answer. In this case, do "rough" calculation in advance.
So, let's think in different perspective. This is our goal :
$$|x^{2} - 4| < varepsilon$$
and this is our starting point :
$$ |x- 2| < delta$$
Now, consider our goal as starting point :
begin{align*}
&|x^2 - 4| = |x-2|,|x+2| < varepsilon \
&|x-2| < frac{varepsilon}{|x+2|}
end{align*}
Now, we want to bound $x$. So, let's use different number, for example $frac{1}{2}$. Assume $|x-2|<frac{1}{2}$ then we have $frac{5}{2}< x+ 2 <frac{7}{2}$ which means $frac{5}{2}< |x+2| < frac{7}{2}$ and now we know that $frac{2}{7} < frac{1}{|x+4|} < frac{2}{5}$
Going back to the previous inequality, we obtain
$$|x-2| < frac{varepsilon}{|x+2|}<frac{2}{5}varepsilon$$
Now, we can find $delta = min {frac{1}{2}, frac{2}{5}varepsilon}$ as our bound and start the proof. What I want to demonstrate here is for you to realize that "guess work" needs to be smartly done and there are a lot of answers to prove.
I can relate to your difficulties. Before I answer your question, I would like to emphasize that in $varepsilon-delta$ proof, you need to do the "calculation" in advance.
Now, here is the thing... The concept of limit is probably best explained as moving closer and closer to a certain value. In your problem, $x$ is moving closer and closer to $2$. How close? That depends on the choice of your $varepsilon>0$ in the first place. Now, understand that $x$ moves closer to $2$ means you can "bound" $x$. In this case, I can bound $x$ with any number (usually $1$ for simplicity and easy calculation). If you are in doubt, you can try to use another number such as $sqrt{2}$ but maybe the calculation will be not as good sometimes.
Also, "guess work" as you mention is not entirely wrong. However, you need to be "smart" to guess the correct answer. In this case, do "rough" calculation in advance.
So, let's think in different perspective. This is our goal :
$$|x^{2} - 4| < varepsilon$$
and this is our starting point :
$$ |x- 2| < delta$$
Now, consider our goal as starting point :
begin{align*}
&|x^2 - 4| = |x-2|,|x+2| < varepsilon \
&|x-2| < frac{varepsilon}{|x+2|}
end{align*}
Now, we want to bound $x$. So, let's use different number, for example $frac{1}{2}$. Assume $|x-2|<frac{1}{2}$ then we have $frac{5}{2}< x+ 2 <frac{7}{2}$ which means $frac{5}{2}< |x+2| < frac{7}{2}$ and now we know that $frac{2}{7} < frac{1}{|x+4|} < frac{2}{5}$
Going back to the previous inequality, we obtain
$$|x-2| < frac{varepsilon}{|x+2|}<frac{2}{5}varepsilon$$
Now, we can find $delta = min {frac{1}{2}, frac{2}{5}varepsilon}$ as our bound and start the proof. What I want to demonstrate here is for you to realize that "guess work" needs to be smartly done and there are a lot of answers to prove.
answered 21 mins ago
Evan William Chandra
463313
463313
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
0
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I thought I would add some thoughts on what exactly is going on with $min(1,cdots)$. Note that this applies equally well to the same thing in proofs of continuity.
Limits only care about what happens very close to the point in question. In this case the point $x=2$. It doesn't care what happens at $x=1000$, for instance. Thus we care about small values of $epsilon$ and $delta$. So as long as $epsilon$ is small, choosing $delta$ to be $frac{epsilon}{5}$ works fine, and we're done.
However, while limits only really care about small $epsilon$, the definition says you should be able to pick a $delta$ for any epsilon. This is partly in order to be brief, and partly in order to be Imperial as to what constitutes "small". The definition may as well have said "For any $epsilon$ with $0<epsilon<1$, there is a $delta>0$ such that ..." and that would've been equivalent.
However, that's a bit longer to write, and it makes $1$ look like some kind of special number in this context, which it is not. Perhaps more importantly, some times you need to specifically use something like $epsilon=2$ in a proof, and in that case, it's easier if the definition didn't have a limitation on $epsilon$.
So, with that said, when we pick our $delta$, we mostly care about small $epsilon$, but we have to take into account that someone, somewhere, may one day pick $epsilon=1000$. And in that case $delta=200$ is way too big.
This can be solved in two ways. One way is to find an expression for $delta$ which always works. That's complicated and will involve square roots, at the very least. The standard way, which is used here, is to declare that if $epsilon$ is larger than some bound (in this case $5$), we will use $delta=1$. If $epsilon$ is smaller, we will use $fracepsilon5$.
There is nothing special about $1$ in this case. It's just that some number must be picked, and $1$ is a nice number most of the time.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
I thought I would add some thoughts on what exactly is going on with $min(1,cdots)$. Note that this applies equally well to the same thing in proofs of continuity.
Limits only care about what happens very close to the point in question. In this case the point $x=2$. It doesn't care what happens at $x=1000$, for instance. Thus we care about small values of $epsilon$ and $delta$. So as long as $epsilon$ is small, choosing $delta$ to be $frac{epsilon}{5}$ works fine, and we're done.
However, while limits only really care about small $epsilon$, the definition says you should be able to pick a $delta$ for any epsilon. This is partly in order to be brief, and partly in order to be Imperial as to what constitutes "small". The definition may as well have said "For any $epsilon$ with $0<epsilon<1$, there is a $delta>0$ such that ..." and that would've been equivalent.
However, that's a bit longer to write, and it makes $1$ look like some kind of special number in this context, which it is not. Perhaps more importantly, some times you need to specifically use something like $epsilon=2$ in a proof, and in that case, it's easier if the definition didn't have a limitation on $epsilon$.
So, with that said, when we pick our $delta$, we mostly care about small $epsilon$, but we have to take into account that someone, somewhere, may one day pick $epsilon=1000$. And in that case $delta=200$ is way too big.
This can be solved in two ways. One way is to find an expression for $delta$ which always works. That's complicated and will involve square roots, at the very least. The standard way, which is used here, is to declare that if $epsilon$ is larger than some bound (in this case $5$), we will use $delta=1$. If $epsilon$ is smaller, we will use $fracepsilon5$.
There is nothing special about $1$ in this case. It's just that some number must be picked, and $1$ is a nice number most of the time.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
I thought I would add some thoughts on what exactly is going on with $min(1,cdots)$. Note that this applies equally well to the same thing in proofs of continuity.
Limits only care about what happens very close to the point in question. In this case the point $x=2$. It doesn't care what happens at $x=1000$, for instance. Thus we care about small values of $epsilon$ and $delta$. So as long as $epsilon$ is small, choosing $delta$ to be $frac{epsilon}{5}$ works fine, and we're done.
However, while limits only really care about small $epsilon$, the definition says you should be able to pick a $delta$ for any epsilon. This is partly in order to be brief, and partly in order to be Imperial as to what constitutes "small". The definition may as well have said "For any $epsilon$ with $0<epsilon<1$, there is a $delta>0$ such that ..." and that would've been equivalent.
However, that's a bit longer to write, and it makes $1$ look like some kind of special number in this context, which it is not. Perhaps more importantly, some times you need to specifically use something like $epsilon=2$ in a proof, and in that case, it's easier if the definition didn't have a limitation on $epsilon$.
So, with that said, when we pick our $delta$, we mostly care about small $epsilon$, but we have to take into account that someone, somewhere, may one day pick $epsilon=1000$. And in that case $delta=200$ is way too big.
This can be solved in two ways. One way is to find an expression for $delta$ which always works. That's complicated and will involve square roots, at the very least. The standard way, which is used here, is to declare that if $epsilon$ is larger than some bound (in this case $5$), we will use $delta=1$. If $epsilon$ is smaller, we will use $fracepsilon5$.
There is nothing special about $1$ in this case. It's just that some number must be picked, and $1$ is a nice number most of the time.
I thought I would add some thoughts on what exactly is going on with $min(1,cdots)$. Note that this applies equally well to the same thing in proofs of continuity.
Limits only care about what happens very close to the point in question. In this case the point $x=2$. It doesn't care what happens at $x=1000$, for instance. Thus we care about small values of $epsilon$ and $delta$. So as long as $epsilon$ is small, choosing $delta$ to be $frac{epsilon}{5}$ works fine, and we're done.
However, while limits only really care about small $epsilon$, the definition says you should be able to pick a $delta$ for any epsilon. This is partly in order to be brief, and partly in order to be Imperial as to what constitutes "small". The definition may as well have said "For any $epsilon$ with $0<epsilon<1$, there is a $delta>0$ such that ..." and that would've been equivalent.
However, that's a bit longer to write, and it makes $1$ look like some kind of special number in this context, which it is not. Perhaps more importantly, some times you need to specifically use something like $epsilon=2$ in a proof, and in that case, it's easier if the definition didn't have a limitation on $epsilon$.
So, with that said, when we pick our $delta$, we mostly care about small $epsilon$, but we have to take into account that someone, somewhere, may one day pick $epsilon=1000$. And in that case $delta=200$ is way too big.
This can be solved in two ways. One way is to find an expression for $delta$ which always works. That's complicated and will involve square roots, at the very least. The standard way, which is used here, is to declare that if $epsilon$ is larger than some bound (in this case $5$), we will use $delta=1$. If $epsilon$ is smaller, we will use $fracepsilon5$.
There is nothing special about $1$ in this case. It's just that some number must be picked, and $1$ is a nice number most of the time.
answered 15 mins ago
Arthur
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Why use the Euro sign?
– Lord Shark the Unknown
35 mins ago
Addressing the why? The initial argument is imprecise: ..closer and closer to 2, therefore closer and closer to 4... Strictly speaking, no one has a clue what it means. The epsilon-delta language is a precise tool to show what the limit is equal to.
– Alvin Lepik
34 mins ago