Can I have two different instruments play the same melody at the same octave?











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I am writing an orchestral track and so far I have written the melody of strings (violins and such) and I want to add trumpets and here are 3 things I consider.
1) Have the trumpets play the same melody as the violins at the exact same octave, is there any reason I should consider this?
2) Have the trumpets play a counter
melody to the violins,
3) Have the trumpets play the same melody of the violins an octave apart.
Does 1 sound good at all?
Which of the above generally will give the best result?










share|improve this question


















  • 2




    Is there a reason you can only pick one? Does time permit variations on a theme?
    – corsiKa
    yesterday






  • 2




    Not if one of them is the violas! //typical insult
    – Carl Witthoft
    17 hours ago










  • You absolutely can. The only possible issue is one instrument drowning out the tone of the other. Just take care of dynamics, etc.
    – ggcg
    13 hours ago















up vote
8
down vote

favorite
2












I am writing an orchestral track and so far I have written the melody of strings (violins and such) and I want to add trumpets and here are 3 things I consider.
1) Have the trumpets play the same melody as the violins at the exact same octave, is there any reason I should consider this?
2) Have the trumpets play a counter
melody to the violins,
3) Have the trumpets play the same melody of the violins an octave apart.
Does 1 sound good at all?
Which of the above generally will give the best result?










share|improve this question


















  • 2




    Is there a reason you can only pick one? Does time permit variations on a theme?
    – corsiKa
    yesterday






  • 2




    Not if one of them is the violas! //typical insult
    – Carl Witthoft
    17 hours ago










  • You absolutely can. The only possible issue is one instrument drowning out the tone of the other. Just take care of dynamics, etc.
    – ggcg
    13 hours ago













up vote
8
down vote

favorite
2









up vote
8
down vote

favorite
2






2





I am writing an orchestral track and so far I have written the melody of strings (violins and such) and I want to add trumpets and here are 3 things I consider.
1) Have the trumpets play the same melody as the violins at the exact same octave, is there any reason I should consider this?
2) Have the trumpets play a counter
melody to the violins,
3) Have the trumpets play the same melody of the violins an octave apart.
Does 1 sound good at all?
Which of the above generally will give the best result?










share|improve this question













I am writing an orchestral track and so far I have written the melody of strings (violins and such) and I want to add trumpets and here are 3 things I consider.
1) Have the trumpets play the same melody as the violins at the exact same octave, is there any reason I should consider this?
2) Have the trumpets play a counter
melody to the violins,
3) Have the trumpets play the same melody of the violins an octave apart.
Does 1 sound good at all?
Which of the above generally will give the best result?







composition harmony orchestra






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share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked yesterday









paradox

10115




10115








  • 2




    Is there a reason you can only pick one? Does time permit variations on a theme?
    – corsiKa
    yesterday






  • 2




    Not if one of them is the violas! //typical insult
    – Carl Witthoft
    17 hours ago










  • You absolutely can. The only possible issue is one instrument drowning out the tone of the other. Just take care of dynamics, etc.
    – ggcg
    13 hours ago














  • 2




    Is there a reason you can only pick one? Does time permit variations on a theme?
    – corsiKa
    yesterday






  • 2




    Not if one of them is the violas! //typical insult
    – Carl Witthoft
    17 hours ago










  • You absolutely can. The only possible issue is one instrument drowning out the tone of the other. Just take care of dynamics, etc.
    – ggcg
    13 hours ago








2




2




Is there a reason you can only pick one? Does time permit variations on a theme?
– corsiKa
yesterday




Is there a reason you can only pick one? Does time permit variations on a theme?
– corsiKa
yesterday




2




2




Not if one of them is the violas! //typical insult
– Carl Witthoft
17 hours ago




Not if one of them is the violas! //typical insult
– Carl Witthoft
17 hours ago












You absolutely can. The only possible issue is one instrument drowning out the tone of the other. Just take care of dynamics, etc.
– ggcg
13 hours ago




You absolutely can. The only possible issue is one instrument drowning out the tone of the other. Just take care of dynamics, etc.
– ggcg
13 hours ago










5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
15
down vote













All three would be viable options.



Doubling the parts in unisons or octaves normally would be for bending a unique timbre. Obviously doubling by unison/octave does not create a harmonic change or counterpoint so the main point would be the timbre/tone color.




Can I have..?




If part of your concern is about the counterpoint rule against parallel octaves, that doesn't apply to instrumental doubling as an orchestration technique.






share|improve this answer

















  • 1




    I remember reading that Rimsky-Korsakov suggested that consistently adding a flute to double a string section creates a more solid timbre, or something along those lines. Definitely a valid option! Trumpets and violins sound a little rarer, but might as well try it out.
    – Luke Sawczak
    yesterday






  • 2




    And there are differences between real instruments and players versus a DAW. Real trumpeters eventually run out a breath and DAW strings will never miss a note! I imagine quite a few orchestrations created in a DAW that would be difficult to pull off with a real orchestra. So there is latitude to experiment more in a DAW.
    – Michael Curtis
    yesterday










  • In an average non-professional orchestra, having the violins play the main melody and a trumpet a counter-melody is asking for trouble (and for a professional orchestra, you still might want some sort of marking in the score so the trumpeter knows they are not playing the main melody).
    – Alexander Woo
    yesterday






  • 4




    @AlexanderWoo, I think it would be interesting and helpful to elaborate about why it could be trouble in an answer.
    – Michael Curtis
    yesterday










  • @AlexanderWoo As someone who played Trumpet in an orchestra for a few years I agree with your point, and would add that I think often composers give these parts to a solo 2nd or 3rd trumpet rather than the principal if they are intending to complement a violin section rather than overpower it. It's also pretty common for these parts to go essentially unheard so that doesn't always work - the skill of the instrumentalists is very important in making your decision and the conductor may have to use his or her own judgment in assigning the parts to get optimal results.
    – Darren Ringer
    12 hours ago


















up vote
6
down vote













There is nothing theoretically wrong with any of your ideas. Making these types of orchestrating decisions is what an arranger does. Each of these options will create a different effect on the listener. I would recommend creating three different versions, listening to them, and then decided which works best for the situation.



You could even use all three ideas by repeating the melody with a different orchestration each time.






share|improve this answer



















  • 1




    Just to build off this answer a bit, three different version could be incorporated into some repeats in the score.
    – Michael Curtis
    yesterday










  • @MichaelCurtis Good point. I've modified the answer to include your suggestion.
    – Peter
    yesterday


















up vote
2
down vote













Take a listen to Bolero by Ravel.



You can think of it as a study on varying instrument combinations while maintaining the same the rhythm and melody. You can really start to hear the effect at minute 6:20.



See also: http://theidiomaticorchestra.net/parallel-dobling/






share|improve this answer








New contributor




Mitch Roe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.


















  • Drat. You got there first.
    – nigel222
    17 hours ago










  • Note that some of the most striking effects in Bolero are due to parallel writing in intervals other than octaves. For example, the "pipe organ" effect has one piccolo a perfect fifth above the melody, and the other piccolo a major tenth above.
    – Michael Seifert
    14 hours ago


















up vote
0
down vote













Think of combinations of instruments playing in parallel unisons, fifths, and octaves as though they were kinds of composite instruments. Then an arranger writing for violin, flute, and cello wouldn't have just three instruments at his disposal, but also many more like the univiolinflute, the octaviolinflute, the suboctaviolinflute, the univiolincello, the octaviolincello, the doubloctabiolincello, the octaflutecello, the doubloctaflutecello, etc.



The reason for the rule against parallel octaves or unisons is that having groups of two or more instruments play parallel octaves or unisons will often make it sound as though one has switched to using a different set of instruments. This can be a good thing if done at places where such a switch would make musical sense, but bad if such switches seem to occur willy-nilly without rhyme or reason.



The goal of music theory is not to identify things that are "good" or "bad", but rather to allow composers to identify how things are likely to be perceived. If a composer wants part of a phrase to sound as though it's produced by a univiolinflute while other parts are played by a distinct violin and flute, great--use parallel intervals to achieve that effect. The music theory rules against parallel intervals doesn't say such things are "bad", but rather say that parallel intervals are likely to create such an effect whether the composer wants it or not, and composers should avoid them except when that effect is wanted.






share|improve this answer

















  • 2




    The reason for the rule against parallel octaves etc. is to achieve independence of voices for a polyphonic texture. Other than that there really isn't a problem with parallel writing.
    – Michael Curtis
    yesterday










  • @MichaelCurtis: One could use the term "texture" to describe the effect I attribute to "composite instruments"; places where voices move in parallel unisons, fifths, or octaves will have a different texture from places where they don't. The same principle I've alluded to will apply: changing textures when it makes musical sense is often good, but changing textures arbitrarily generally isn't.
    – supercat
    yesterday










  • I'm using 'texture' in the academic, musical sense: monophonic, homophonic, polyphonic, etc. - not in the generic sense like 'smooth' or 'rough' - only to clarify the point about a "rule"
    – Michael Curtis
    yesterday


















up vote
0
down vote













All your proposed schemes are viable, on the surface.
Without seeing what the violinists are playing, having the Trumpet double them is possible given that the parts are not unplayable by a trumpeter. If it's too high in the range, your option of doubling at the octave is possible. If you don't have space for the trumpet to breath you might consider trading lines between members of the trumpet section. If you write in a key that is not particularly trumpet friendly and approachable a professional will certainly tell you. As for melody counter melody.... Go for it, it might work, it might not.






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    5 Answers
    5






    active

    oldest

    votes








    5 Answers
    5






    active

    oldest

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    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

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    up vote
    15
    down vote













    All three would be viable options.



    Doubling the parts in unisons or octaves normally would be for bending a unique timbre. Obviously doubling by unison/octave does not create a harmonic change or counterpoint so the main point would be the timbre/tone color.




    Can I have..?




    If part of your concern is about the counterpoint rule against parallel octaves, that doesn't apply to instrumental doubling as an orchestration technique.






    share|improve this answer

















    • 1




      I remember reading that Rimsky-Korsakov suggested that consistently adding a flute to double a string section creates a more solid timbre, or something along those lines. Definitely a valid option! Trumpets and violins sound a little rarer, but might as well try it out.
      – Luke Sawczak
      yesterday






    • 2




      And there are differences between real instruments and players versus a DAW. Real trumpeters eventually run out a breath and DAW strings will never miss a note! I imagine quite a few orchestrations created in a DAW that would be difficult to pull off with a real orchestra. So there is latitude to experiment more in a DAW.
      – Michael Curtis
      yesterday










    • In an average non-professional orchestra, having the violins play the main melody and a trumpet a counter-melody is asking for trouble (and for a professional orchestra, you still might want some sort of marking in the score so the trumpeter knows they are not playing the main melody).
      – Alexander Woo
      yesterday






    • 4




      @AlexanderWoo, I think it would be interesting and helpful to elaborate about why it could be trouble in an answer.
      – Michael Curtis
      yesterday










    • @AlexanderWoo As someone who played Trumpet in an orchestra for a few years I agree with your point, and would add that I think often composers give these parts to a solo 2nd or 3rd trumpet rather than the principal if they are intending to complement a violin section rather than overpower it. It's also pretty common for these parts to go essentially unheard so that doesn't always work - the skill of the instrumentalists is very important in making your decision and the conductor may have to use his or her own judgment in assigning the parts to get optimal results.
      – Darren Ringer
      12 hours ago















    up vote
    15
    down vote













    All three would be viable options.



    Doubling the parts in unisons or octaves normally would be for bending a unique timbre. Obviously doubling by unison/octave does not create a harmonic change or counterpoint so the main point would be the timbre/tone color.




    Can I have..?




    If part of your concern is about the counterpoint rule against parallel octaves, that doesn't apply to instrumental doubling as an orchestration technique.






    share|improve this answer

















    • 1




      I remember reading that Rimsky-Korsakov suggested that consistently adding a flute to double a string section creates a more solid timbre, or something along those lines. Definitely a valid option! Trumpets and violins sound a little rarer, but might as well try it out.
      – Luke Sawczak
      yesterday






    • 2




      And there are differences between real instruments and players versus a DAW. Real trumpeters eventually run out a breath and DAW strings will never miss a note! I imagine quite a few orchestrations created in a DAW that would be difficult to pull off with a real orchestra. So there is latitude to experiment more in a DAW.
      – Michael Curtis
      yesterday










    • In an average non-professional orchestra, having the violins play the main melody and a trumpet a counter-melody is asking for trouble (and for a professional orchestra, you still might want some sort of marking in the score so the trumpeter knows they are not playing the main melody).
      – Alexander Woo
      yesterday






    • 4




      @AlexanderWoo, I think it would be interesting and helpful to elaborate about why it could be trouble in an answer.
      – Michael Curtis
      yesterday










    • @AlexanderWoo As someone who played Trumpet in an orchestra for a few years I agree with your point, and would add that I think often composers give these parts to a solo 2nd or 3rd trumpet rather than the principal if they are intending to complement a violin section rather than overpower it. It's also pretty common for these parts to go essentially unheard so that doesn't always work - the skill of the instrumentalists is very important in making your decision and the conductor may have to use his or her own judgment in assigning the parts to get optimal results.
      – Darren Ringer
      12 hours ago













    up vote
    15
    down vote










    up vote
    15
    down vote









    All three would be viable options.



    Doubling the parts in unisons or octaves normally would be for bending a unique timbre. Obviously doubling by unison/octave does not create a harmonic change or counterpoint so the main point would be the timbre/tone color.




    Can I have..?




    If part of your concern is about the counterpoint rule against parallel octaves, that doesn't apply to instrumental doubling as an orchestration technique.






    share|improve this answer












    All three would be viable options.



    Doubling the parts in unisons or octaves normally would be for bending a unique timbre. Obviously doubling by unison/octave does not create a harmonic change or counterpoint so the main point would be the timbre/tone color.




    Can I have..?




    If part of your concern is about the counterpoint rule against parallel octaves, that doesn't apply to instrumental doubling as an orchestration technique.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered yesterday









    Michael Curtis

    4,306324




    4,306324








    • 1




      I remember reading that Rimsky-Korsakov suggested that consistently adding a flute to double a string section creates a more solid timbre, or something along those lines. Definitely a valid option! Trumpets and violins sound a little rarer, but might as well try it out.
      – Luke Sawczak
      yesterday






    • 2




      And there are differences between real instruments and players versus a DAW. Real trumpeters eventually run out a breath and DAW strings will never miss a note! I imagine quite a few orchestrations created in a DAW that would be difficult to pull off with a real orchestra. So there is latitude to experiment more in a DAW.
      – Michael Curtis
      yesterday










    • In an average non-professional orchestra, having the violins play the main melody and a trumpet a counter-melody is asking for trouble (and for a professional orchestra, you still might want some sort of marking in the score so the trumpeter knows they are not playing the main melody).
      – Alexander Woo
      yesterday






    • 4




      @AlexanderWoo, I think it would be interesting and helpful to elaborate about why it could be trouble in an answer.
      – Michael Curtis
      yesterday










    • @AlexanderWoo As someone who played Trumpet in an orchestra for a few years I agree with your point, and would add that I think often composers give these parts to a solo 2nd or 3rd trumpet rather than the principal if they are intending to complement a violin section rather than overpower it. It's also pretty common for these parts to go essentially unheard so that doesn't always work - the skill of the instrumentalists is very important in making your decision and the conductor may have to use his or her own judgment in assigning the parts to get optimal results.
      – Darren Ringer
      12 hours ago














    • 1




      I remember reading that Rimsky-Korsakov suggested that consistently adding a flute to double a string section creates a more solid timbre, or something along those lines. Definitely a valid option! Trumpets and violins sound a little rarer, but might as well try it out.
      – Luke Sawczak
      yesterday






    • 2




      And there are differences between real instruments and players versus a DAW. Real trumpeters eventually run out a breath and DAW strings will never miss a note! I imagine quite a few orchestrations created in a DAW that would be difficult to pull off with a real orchestra. So there is latitude to experiment more in a DAW.
      – Michael Curtis
      yesterday










    • In an average non-professional orchestra, having the violins play the main melody and a trumpet a counter-melody is asking for trouble (and for a professional orchestra, you still might want some sort of marking in the score so the trumpeter knows they are not playing the main melody).
      – Alexander Woo
      yesterday






    • 4




      @AlexanderWoo, I think it would be interesting and helpful to elaborate about why it could be trouble in an answer.
      – Michael Curtis
      yesterday










    • @AlexanderWoo As someone who played Trumpet in an orchestra for a few years I agree with your point, and would add that I think often composers give these parts to a solo 2nd or 3rd trumpet rather than the principal if they are intending to complement a violin section rather than overpower it. It's also pretty common for these parts to go essentially unheard so that doesn't always work - the skill of the instrumentalists is very important in making your decision and the conductor may have to use his or her own judgment in assigning the parts to get optimal results.
      – Darren Ringer
      12 hours ago








    1




    1




    I remember reading that Rimsky-Korsakov suggested that consistently adding a flute to double a string section creates a more solid timbre, or something along those lines. Definitely a valid option! Trumpets and violins sound a little rarer, but might as well try it out.
    – Luke Sawczak
    yesterday




    I remember reading that Rimsky-Korsakov suggested that consistently adding a flute to double a string section creates a more solid timbre, or something along those lines. Definitely a valid option! Trumpets and violins sound a little rarer, but might as well try it out.
    – Luke Sawczak
    yesterday




    2




    2




    And there are differences between real instruments and players versus a DAW. Real trumpeters eventually run out a breath and DAW strings will never miss a note! I imagine quite a few orchestrations created in a DAW that would be difficult to pull off with a real orchestra. So there is latitude to experiment more in a DAW.
    – Michael Curtis
    yesterday




    And there are differences between real instruments and players versus a DAW. Real trumpeters eventually run out a breath and DAW strings will never miss a note! I imagine quite a few orchestrations created in a DAW that would be difficult to pull off with a real orchestra. So there is latitude to experiment more in a DAW.
    – Michael Curtis
    yesterday












    In an average non-professional orchestra, having the violins play the main melody and a trumpet a counter-melody is asking for trouble (and for a professional orchestra, you still might want some sort of marking in the score so the trumpeter knows they are not playing the main melody).
    – Alexander Woo
    yesterday




    In an average non-professional orchestra, having the violins play the main melody and a trumpet a counter-melody is asking for trouble (and for a professional orchestra, you still might want some sort of marking in the score so the trumpeter knows they are not playing the main melody).
    – Alexander Woo
    yesterday




    4




    4




    @AlexanderWoo, I think it would be interesting and helpful to elaborate about why it could be trouble in an answer.
    – Michael Curtis
    yesterday




    @AlexanderWoo, I think it would be interesting and helpful to elaborate about why it could be trouble in an answer.
    – Michael Curtis
    yesterday












    @AlexanderWoo As someone who played Trumpet in an orchestra for a few years I agree with your point, and would add that I think often composers give these parts to a solo 2nd or 3rd trumpet rather than the principal if they are intending to complement a violin section rather than overpower it. It's also pretty common for these parts to go essentially unheard so that doesn't always work - the skill of the instrumentalists is very important in making your decision and the conductor may have to use his or her own judgment in assigning the parts to get optimal results.
    – Darren Ringer
    12 hours ago




    @AlexanderWoo As someone who played Trumpet in an orchestra for a few years I agree with your point, and would add that I think often composers give these parts to a solo 2nd or 3rd trumpet rather than the principal if they are intending to complement a violin section rather than overpower it. It's also pretty common for these parts to go essentially unheard so that doesn't always work - the skill of the instrumentalists is very important in making your decision and the conductor may have to use his or her own judgment in assigning the parts to get optimal results.
    – Darren Ringer
    12 hours ago










    up vote
    6
    down vote













    There is nothing theoretically wrong with any of your ideas. Making these types of orchestrating decisions is what an arranger does. Each of these options will create a different effect on the listener. I would recommend creating three different versions, listening to them, and then decided which works best for the situation.



    You could even use all three ideas by repeating the melody with a different orchestration each time.






    share|improve this answer



















    • 1




      Just to build off this answer a bit, three different version could be incorporated into some repeats in the score.
      – Michael Curtis
      yesterday










    • @MichaelCurtis Good point. I've modified the answer to include your suggestion.
      – Peter
      yesterday















    up vote
    6
    down vote













    There is nothing theoretically wrong with any of your ideas. Making these types of orchestrating decisions is what an arranger does. Each of these options will create a different effect on the listener. I would recommend creating three different versions, listening to them, and then decided which works best for the situation.



    You could even use all three ideas by repeating the melody with a different orchestration each time.






    share|improve this answer



















    • 1




      Just to build off this answer a bit, three different version could be incorporated into some repeats in the score.
      – Michael Curtis
      yesterday










    • @MichaelCurtis Good point. I've modified the answer to include your suggestion.
      – Peter
      yesterday













    up vote
    6
    down vote










    up vote
    6
    down vote









    There is nothing theoretically wrong with any of your ideas. Making these types of orchestrating decisions is what an arranger does. Each of these options will create a different effect on the listener. I would recommend creating three different versions, listening to them, and then decided which works best for the situation.



    You could even use all three ideas by repeating the melody with a different orchestration each time.






    share|improve this answer














    There is nothing theoretically wrong with any of your ideas. Making these types of orchestrating decisions is what an arranger does. Each of these options will create a different effect on the listener. I would recommend creating three different versions, listening to them, and then decided which works best for the situation.



    You could even use all three ideas by repeating the melody with a different orchestration each time.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited yesterday

























    answered yesterday









    Peter

    5758




    5758








    • 1




      Just to build off this answer a bit, three different version could be incorporated into some repeats in the score.
      – Michael Curtis
      yesterday










    • @MichaelCurtis Good point. I've modified the answer to include your suggestion.
      – Peter
      yesterday














    • 1




      Just to build off this answer a bit, three different version could be incorporated into some repeats in the score.
      – Michael Curtis
      yesterday










    • @MichaelCurtis Good point. I've modified the answer to include your suggestion.
      – Peter
      yesterday








    1




    1




    Just to build off this answer a bit, three different version could be incorporated into some repeats in the score.
    – Michael Curtis
    yesterday




    Just to build off this answer a bit, three different version could be incorporated into some repeats in the score.
    – Michael Curtis
    yesterday












    @MichaelCurtis Good point. I've modified the answer to include your suggestion.
    – Peter
    yesterday




    @MichaelCurtis Good point. I've modified the answer to include your suggestion.
    – Peter
    yesterday










    up vote
    2
    down vote













    Take a listen to Bolero by Ravel.



    You can think of it as a study on varying instrument combinations while maintaining the same the rhythm and melody. You can really start to hear the effect at minute 6:20.



    See also: http://theidiomaticorchestra.net/parallel-dobling/






    share|improve this answer








    New contributor




    Mitch Roe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.


















    • Drat. You got there first.
      – nigel222
      17 hours ago










    • Note that some of the most striking effects in Bolero are due to parallel writing in intervals other than octaves. For example, the "pipe organ" effect has one piccolo a perfect fifth above the melody, and the other piccolo a major tenth above.
      – Michael Seifert
      14 hours ago















    up vote
    2
    down vote













    Take a listen to Bolero by Ravel.



    You can think of it as a study on varying instrument combinations while maintaining the same the rhythm and melody. You can really start to hear the effect at minute 6:20.



    See also: http://theidiomaticorchestra.net/parallel-dobling/






    share|improve this answer








    New contributor




    Mitch Roe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.


















    • Drat. You got there first.
      – nigel222
      17 hours ago










    • Note that some of the most striking effects in Bolero are due to parallel writing in intervals other than octaves. For example, the "pipe organ" effect has one piccolo a perfect fifth above the melody, and the other piccolo a major tenth above.
      – Michael Seifert
      14 hours ago













    up vote
    2
    down vote










    up vote
    2
    down vote









    Take a listen to Bolero by Ravel.



    You can think of it as a study on varying instrument combinations while maintaining the same the rhythm and melody. You can really start to hear the effect at minute 6:20.



    See also: http://theidiomaticorchestra.net/parallel-dobling/






    share|improve this answer








    New contributor




    Mitch Roe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.









    Take a listen to Bolero by Ravel.



    You can think of it as a study on varying instrument combinations while maintaining the same the rhythm and melody. You can really start to hear the effect at minute 6:20.



    See also: http://theidiomaticorchestra.net/parallel-dobling/







    share|improve this answer








    New contributor




    Mitch Roe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.









    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer






    New contributor




    Mitch Roe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.









    answered yesterday









    Mitch Roe

    211




    211




    New contributor




    Mitch Roe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.





    New contributor





    Mitch Roe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.






    Mitch Roe is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.












    • Drat. You got there first.
      – nigel222
      17 hours ago










    • Note that some of the most striking effects in Bolero are due to parallel writing in intervals other than octaves. For example, the "pipe organ" effect has one piccolo a perfect fifth above the melody, and the other piccolo a major tenth above.
      – Michael Seifert
      14 hours ago


















    • Drat. You got there first.
      – nigel222
      17 hours ago










    • Note that some of the most striking effects in Bolero are due to parallel writing in intervals other than octaves. For example, the "pipe organ" effect has one piccolo a perfect fifth above the melody, and the other piccolo a major tenth above.
      – Michael Seifert
      14 hours ago
















    Drat. You got there first.
    – nigel222
    17 hours ago




    Drat. You got there first.
    – nigel222
    17 hours ago












    Note that some of the most striking effects in Bolero are due to parallel writing in intervals other than octaves. For example, the "pipe organ" effect has one piccolo a perfect fifth above the melody, and the other piccolo a major tenth above.
    – Michael Seifert
    14 hours ago




    Note that some of the most striking effects in Bolero are due to parallel writing in intervals other than octaves. For example, the "pipe organ" effect has one piccolo a perfect fifth above the melody, and the other piccolo a major tenth above.
    – Michael Seifert
    14 hours ago










    up vote
    0
    down vote













    Think of combinations of instruments playing in parallel unisons, fifths, and octaves as though they were kinds of composite instruments. Then an arranger writing for violin, flute, and cello wouldn't have just three instruments at his disposal, but also many more like the univiolinflute, the octaviolinflute, the suboctaviolinflute, the univiolincello, the octaviolincello, the doubloctabiolincello, the octaflutecello, the doubloctaflutecello, etc.



    The reason for the rule against parallel octaves or unisons is that having groups of two or more instruments play parallel octaves or unisons will often make it sound as though one has switched to using a different set of instruments. This can be a good thing if done at places where such a switch would make musical sense, but bad if such switches seem to occur willy-nilly without rhyme or reason.



    The goal of music theory is not to identify things that are "good" or "bad", but rather to allow composers to identify how things are likely to be perceived. If a composer wants part of a phrase to sound as though it's produced by a univiolinflute while other parts are played by a distinct violin and flute, great--use parallel intervals to achieve that effect. The music theory rules against parallel intervals doesn't say such things are "bad", but rather say that parallel intervals are likely to create such an effect whether the composer wants it or not, and composers should avoid them except when that effect is wanted.






    share|improve this answer

















    • 2




      The reason for the rule against parallel octaves etc. is to achieve independence of voices for a polyphonic texture. Other than that there really isn't a problem with parallel writing.
      – Michael Curtis
      yesterday










    • @MichaelCurtis: One could use the term "texture" to describe the effect I attribute to "composite instruments"; places where voices move in parallel unisons, fifths, or octaves will have a different texture from places where they don't. The same principle I've alluded to will apply: changing textures when it makes musical sense is often good, but changing textures arbitrarily generally isn't.
      – supercat
      yesterday










    • I'm using 'texture' in the academic, musical sense: monophonic, homophonic, polyphonic, etc. - not in the generic sense like 'smooth' or 'rough' - only to clarify the point about a "rule"
      – Michael Curtis
      yesterday















    up vote
    0
    down vote













    Think of combinations of instruments playing in parallel unisons, fifths, and octaves as though they were kinds of composite instruments. Then an arranger writing for violin, flute, and cello wouldn't have just three instruments at his disposal, but also many more like the univiolinflute, the octaviolinflute, the suboctaviolinflute, the univiolincello, the octaviolincello, the doubloctabiolincello, the octaflutecello, the doubloctaflutecello, etc.



    The reason for the rule against parallel octaves or unisons is that having groups of two or more instruments play parallel octaves or unisons will often make it sound as though one has switched to using a different set of instruments. This can be a good thing if done at places where such a switch would make musical sense, but bad if such switches seem to occur willy-nilly without rhyme or reason.



    The goal of music theory is not to identify things that are "good" or "bad", but rather to allow composers to identify how things are likely to be perceived. If a composer wants part of a phrase to sound as though it's produced by a univiolinflute while other parts are played by a distinct violin and flute, great--use parallel intervals to achieve that effect. The music theory rules against parallel intervals doesn't say such things are "bad", but rather say that parallel intervals are likely to create such an effect whether the composer wants it or not, and composers should avoid them except when that effect is wanted.






    share|improve this answer

















    • 2




      The reason for the rule against parallel octaves etc. is to achieve independence of voices for a polyphonic texture. Other than that there really isn't a problem with parallel writing.
      – Michael Curtis
      yesterday










    • @MichaelCurtis: One could use the term "texture" to describe the effect I attribute to "composite instruments"; places where voices move in parallel unisons, fifths, or octaves will have a different texture from places where they don't. The same principle I've alluded to will apply: changing textures when it makes musical sense is often good, but changing textures arbitrarily generally isn't.
      – supercat
      yesterday










    • I'm using 'texture' in the academic, musical sense: monophonic, homophonic, polyphonic, etc. - not in the generic sense like 'smooth' or 'rough' - only to clarify the point about a "rule"
      – Michael Curtis
      yesterday













    up vote
    0
    down vote










    up vote
    0
    down vote









    Think of combinations of instruments playing in parallel unisons, fifths, and octaves as though they were kinds of composite instruments. Then an arranger writing for violin, flute, and cello wouldn't have just three instruments at his disposal, but also many more like the univiolinflute, the octaviolinflute, the suboctaviolinflute, the univiolincello, the octaviolincello, the doubloctabiolincello, the octaflutecello, the doubloctaflutecello, etc.



    The reason for the rule against parallel octaves or unisons is that having groups of two or more instruments play parallel octaves or unisons will often make it sound as though one has switched to using a different set of instruments. This can be a good thing if done at places where such a switch would make musical sense, but bad if such switches seem to occur willy-nilly without rhyme or reason.



    The goal of music theory is not to identify things that are "good" or "bad", but rather to allow composers to identify how things are likely to be perceived. If a composer wants part of a phrase to sound as though it's produced by a univiolinflute while other parts are played by a distinct violin and flute, great--use parallel intervals to achieve that effect. The music theory rules against parallel intervals doesn't say such things are "bad", but rather say that parallel intervals are likely to create such an effect whether the composer wants it or not, and composers should avoid them except when that effect is wanted.






    share|improve this answer












    Think of combinations of instruments playing in parallel unisons, fifths, and octaves as though they were kinds of composite instruments. Then an arranger writing for violin, flute, and cello wouldn't have just three instruments at his disposal, but also many more like the univiolinflute, the octaviolinflute, the suboctaviolinflute, the univiolincello, the octaviolincello, the doubloctabiolincello, the octaflutecello, the doubloctaflutecello, etc.



    The reason for the rule against parallel octaves or unisons is that having groups of two or more instruments play parallel octaves or unisons will often make it sound as though one has switched to using a different set of instruments. This can be a good thing if done at places where such a switch would make musical sense, but bad if such switches seem to occur willy-nilly without rhyme or reason.



    The goal of music theory is not to identify things that are "good" or "bad", but rather to allow composers to identify how things are likely to be perceived. If a composer wants part of a phrase to sound as though it's produced by a univiolinflute while other parts are played by a distinct violin and flute, great--use parallel intervals to achieve that effect. The music theory rules against parallel intervals doesn't say such things are "bad", but rather say that parallel intervals are likely to create such an effect whether the composer wants it or not, and composers should avoid them except when that effect is wanted.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered yesterday









    supercat

    2,272914




    2,272914








    • 2




      The reason for the rule against parallel octaves etc. is to achieve independence of voices for a polyphonic texture. Other than that there really isn't a problem with parallel writing.
      – Michael Curtis
      yesterday










    • @MichaelCurtis: One could use the term "texture" to describe the effect I attribute to "composite instruments"; places where voices move in parallel unisons, fifths, or octaves will have a different texture from places where they don't. The same principle I've alluded to will apply: changing textures when it makes musical sense is often good, but changing textures arbitrarily generally isn't.
      – supercat
      yesterday










    • I'm using 'texture' in the academic, musical sense: monophonic, homophonic, polyphonic, etc. - not in the generic sense like 'smooth' or 'rough' - only to clarify the point about a "rule"
      – Michael Curtis
      yesterday














    • 2




      The reason for the rule against parallel octaves etc. is to achieve independence of voices for a polyphonic texture. Other than that there really isn't a problem with parallel writing.
      – Michael Curtis
      yesterday










    • @MichaelCurtis: One could use the term "texture" to describe the effect I attribute to "composite instruments"; places where voices move in parallel unisons, fifths, or octaves will have a different texture from places where they don't. The same principle I've alluded to will apply: changing textures when it makes musical sense is often good, but changing textures arbitrarily generally isn't.
      – supercat
      yesterday










    • I'm using 'texture' in the academic, musical sense: monophonic, homophonic, polyphonic, etc. - not in the generic sense like 'smooth' or 'rough' - only to clarify the point about a "rule"
      – Michael Curtis
      yesterday








    2




    2




    The reason for the rule against parallel octaves etc. is to achieve independence of voices for a polyphonic texture. Other than that there really isn't a problem with parallel writing.
    – Michael Curtis
    yesterday




    The reason for the rule against parallel octaves etc. is to achieve independence of voices for a polyphonic texture. Other than that there really isn't a problem with parallel writing.
    – Michael Curtis
    yesterday












    @MichaelCurtis: One could use the term "texture" to describe the effect I attribute to "composite instruments"; places where voices move in parallel unisons, fifths, or octaves will have a different texture from places where they don't. The same principle I've alluded to will apply: changing textures when it makes musical sense is often good, but changing textures arbitrarily generally isn't.
    – supercat
    yesterday




    @MichaelCurtis: One could use the term "texture" to describe the effect I attribute to "composite instruments"; places where voices move in parallel unisons, fifths, or octaves will have a different texture from places where they don't. The same principle I've alluded to will apply: changing textures when it makes musical sense is often good, but changing textures arbitrarily generally isn't.
    – supercat
    yesterday












    I'm using 'texture' in the academic, musical sense: monophonic, homophonic, polyphonic, etc. - not in the generic sense like 'smooth' or 'rough' - only to clarify the point about a "rule"
    – Michael Curtis
    yesterday




    I'm using 'texture' in the academic, musical sense: monophonic, homophonic, polyphonic, etc. - not in the generic sense like 'smooth' or 'rough' - only to clarify the point about a "rule"
    – Michael Curtis
    yesterday










    up vote
    0
    down vote













    All your proposed schemes are viable, on the surface.
    Without seeing what the violinists are playing, having the Trumpet double them is possible given that the parts are not unplayable by a trumpeter. If it's too high in the range, your option of doubling at the octave is possible. If you don't have space for the trumpet to breath you might consider trading lines between members of the trumpet section. If you write in a key that is not particularly trumpet friendly and approachable a professional will certainly tell you. As for melody counter melody.... Go for it, it might work, it might not.






    share|improve this answer

























      up vote
      0
      down vote













      All your proposed schemes are viable, on the surface.
      Without seeing what the violinists are playing, having the Trumpet double them is possible given that the parts are not unplayable by a trumpeter. If it's too high in the range, your option of doubling at the octave is possible. If you don't have space for the trumpet to breath you might consider trading lines between members of the trumpet section. If you write in a key that is not particularly trumpet friendly and approachable a professional will certainly tell you. As for melody counter melody.... Go for it, it might work, it might not.






      share|improve this answer























        up vote
        0
        down vote










        up vote
        0
        down vote









        All your proposed schemes are viable, on the surface.
        Without seeing what the violinists are playing, having the Trumpet double them is possible given that the parts are not unplayable by a trumpeter. If it's too high in the range, your option of doubling at the octave is possible. If you don't have space for the trumpet to breath you might consider trading lines between members of the trumpet section. If you write in a key that is not particularly trumpet friendly and approachable a professional will certainly tell you. As for melody counter melody.... Go for it, it might work, it might not.






        share|improve this answer












        All your proposed schemes are viable, on the surface.
        Without seeing what the violinists are playing, having the Trumpet double them is possible given that the parts are not unplayable by a trumpeter. If it's too high in the range, your option of doubling at the octave is possible. If you don't have space for the trumpet to breath you might consider trading lines between members of the trumpet section. If you write in a key that is not particularly trumpet friendly and approachable a professional will certainly tell you. As for melody counter melody.... Go for it, it might work, it might not.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 22 hours ago









        Neil A Bliss

        111




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