How do I convince my manager it's a bad idea to allow a reviewer to see a review of them from a subordinate...





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Performance review season is rapidly approaching at my company, and our manager's manager has asked us to help her by creating a word document that has a list of our achievements from the past year and share it with her and our direct manager.



Additionally, she has asked us, in the same document to do our review of our direct manager.



I've tried convincing her that this is a bad idea, but she didn't seem to get the point that I was making - I don't believe it's a good idea for my direct manager to have access to my review of her before she's done the review of me. If I give a bad review, it could subconsciously cause my manager give a worse review of me, and if I give a glowing review, it could similarly cause her give a better review of me than I actually deserve.



What kinds of things should I say to her to convince her that this is a bad idea?










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  • 2




    How confident are you that she's missing the point you want to make, as opposed to having the process setup explicitely to 'encourage' you to submit a glowing review?
    – Jeffrey
    yesterday










  • I'm fairly confident that's not the case. She's otherwise a great manager, and in this case the review wouldn't even be of her, but of my direct manager (who is responsible for reviewing me as well)
    – user3246152
    yesterday










  • The issue seems to be with the implementation rather than the idea. I don't see why there's a need for the manager to access their subordinates' reviews before in turn reviewing the subordinates. I've worked for employers who ran review systems including subordinate reviews of management, but the reviews were all locked "in escrow" until everyone's review of everyone else was finished, and then they were made available for discussion as appropriate. This way, there's no possibility of a feedback loop causing skewed reviews (in either direction).
    – dwizum
    yesterday










  • How did you try to convince her?
    – sf02
    yesterday

















up vote
3
down vote

favorite












Performance review season is rapidly approaching at my company, and our manager's manager has asked us to help her by creating a word document that has a list of our achievements from the past year and share it with her and our direct manager.



Additionally, she has asked us, in the same document to do our review of our direct manager.



I've tried convincing her that this is a bad idea, but she didn't seem to get the point that I was making - I don't believe it's a good idea for my direct manager to have access to my review of her before she's done the review of me. If I give a bad review, it could subconsciously cause my manager give a worse review of me, and if I give a glowing review, it could similarly cause her give a better review of me than I actually deserve.



What kinds of things should I say to her to convince her that this is a bad idea?










share|improve this question


















  • 2




    How confident are you that she's missing the point you want to make, as opposed to having the process setup explicitely to 'encourage' you to submit a glowing review?
    – Jeffrey
    yesterday










  • I'm fairly confident that's not the case. She's otherwise a great manager, and in this case the review wouldn't even be of her, but of my direct manager (who is responsible for reviewing me as well)
    – user3246152
    yesterday










  • The issue seems to be with the implementation rather than the idea. I don't see why there's a need for the manager to access their subordinates' reviews before in turn reviewing the subordinates. I've worked for employers who ran review systems including subordinate reviews of management, but the reviews were all locked "in escrow" until everyone's review of everyone else was finished, and then they were made available for discussion as appropriate. This way, there's no possibility of a feedback loop causing skewed reviews (in either direction).
    – dwizum
    yesterday










  • How did you try to convince her?
    – sf02
    yesterday













up vote
3
down vote

favorite









up vote
3
down vote

favorite











Performance review season is rapidly approaching at my company, and our manager's manager has asked us to help her by creating a word document that has a list of our achievements from the past year and share it with her and our direct manager.



Additionally, she has asked us, in the same document to do our review of our direct manager.



I've tried convincing her that this is a bad idea, but she didn't seem to get the point that I was making - I don't believe it's a good idea for my direct manager to have access to my review of her before she's done the review of me. If I give a bad review, it could subconsciously cause my manager give a worse review of me, and if I give a glowing review, it could similarly cause her give a better review of me than I actually deserve.



What kinds of things should I say to her to convince her that this is a bad idea?










share|improve this question













Performance review season is rapidly approaching at my company, and our manager's manager has asked us to help her by creating a word document that has a list of our achievements from the past year and share it with her and our direct manager.



Additionally, she has asked us, in the same document to do our review of our direct manager.



I've tried convincing her that this is a bad idea, but she didn't seem to get the point that I was making - I don't believe it's a good idea for my direct manager to have access to my review of her before she's done the review of me. If I give a bad review, it could subconsciously cause my manager give a worse review of me, and if I give a glowing review, it could similarly cause her give a better review of me than I actually deserve.



What kinds of things should I say to her to convince her that this is a bad idea?







management performance-reviews






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











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share|improve this question










asked yesterday









user3246152

3462514




3462514








  • 2




    How confident are you that she's missing the point you want to make, as opposed to having the process setup explicitely to 'encourage' you to submit a glowing review?
    – Jeffrey
    yesterday










  • I'm fairly confident that's not the case. She's otherwise a great manager, and in this case the review wouldn't even be of her, but of my direct manager (who is responsible for reviewing me as well)
    – user3246152
    yesterday










  • The issue seems to be with the implementation rather than the idea. I don't see why there's a need for the manager to access their subordinates' reviews before in turn reviewing the subordinates. I've worked for employers who ran review systems including subordinate reviews of management, but the reviews were all locked "in escrow" until everyone's review of everyone else was finished, and then they were made available for discussion as appropriate. This way, there's no possibility of a feedback loop causing skewed reviews (in either direction).
    – dwizum
    yesterday










  • How did you try to convince her?
    – sf02
    yesterday














  • 2




    How confident are you that she's missing the point you want to make, as opposed to having the process setup explicitely to 'encourage' you to submit a glowing review?
    – Jeffrey
    yesterday










  • I'm fairly confident that's not the case. She's otherwise a great manager, and in this case the review wouldn't even be of her, but of my direct manager (who is responsible for reviewing me as well)
    – user3246152
    yesterday










  • The issue seems to be with the implementation rather than the idea. I don't see why there's a need for the manager to access their subordinates' reviews before in turn reviewing the subordinates. I've worked for employers who ran review systems including subordinate reviews of management, but the reviews were all locked "in escrow" until everyone's review of everyone else was finished, and then they were made available for discussion as appropriate. This way, there's no possibility of a feedback loop causing skewed reviews (in either direction).
    – dwizum
    yesterday










  • How did you try to convince her?
    – sf02
    yesterday








2




2




How confident are you that she's missing the point you want to make, as opposed to having the process setup explicitely to 'encourage' you to submit a glowing review?
– Jeffrey
yesterday




How confident are you that she's missing the point you want to make, as opposed to having the process setup explicitely to 'encourage' you to submit a glowing review?
– Jeffrey
yesterday












I'm fairly confident that's not the case. She's otherwise a great manager, and in this case the review wouldn't even be of her, but of my direct manager (who is responsible for reviewing me as well)
– user3246152
yesterday




I'm fairly confident that's not the case. She's otherwise a great manager, and in this case the review wouldn't even be of her, but of my direct manager (who is responsible for reviewing me as well)
– user3246152
yesterday












The issue seems to be with the implementation rather than the idea. I don't see why there's a need for the manager to access their subordinates' reviews before in turn reviewing the subordinates. I've worked for employers who ran review systems including subordinate reviews of management, but the reviews were all locked "in escrow" until everyone's review of everyone else was finished, and then they were made available for discussion as appropriate. This way, there's no possibility of a feedback loop causing skewed reviews (in either direction).
– dwizum
yesterday




The issue seems to be with the implementation rather than the idea. I don't see why there's a need for the manager to access their subordinates' reviews before in turn reviewing the subordinates. I've worked for employers who ran review systems including subordinate reviews of management, but the reviews were all locked "in escrow" until everyone's review of everyone else was finished, and then they were made available for discussion as appropriate. This way, there's no possibility of a feedback loop causing skewed reviews (in either direction).
– dwizum
yesterday












How did you try to convince her?
– sf02
yesterday




How did you try to convince her?
– sf02
yesterday










3 Answers
3






active

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votes

















up vote
0
down vote













The thing that will help the most is to frame it around general and hypothetical situations. You should not even remotely hint that your current manager might possibly be affected.



Rather, talk about the general norms of the industry or even of other industry. Why reviewers in academia are double-blind, for example. Frame it as something absolutely optional but that you happen to care about. As if your were nitpicky, or if you wanted to raise the bar super high. "It is not needed at the moment, but in the future we may have someone that could be affected."-type comment.



That way, you make it clear you absolutely don't think your manager could be affected/biased (even if in reality you do). You also don't give the impression of thinking her idea were half-baked.



If you have colleagues who think the same way, encourage them to just ask "is it a good idea that feedback is not secret until the end of reviews?". Questions will trigger people actually thinking the process through. Or just ask: "what could be the implications of the reviews being visible?". People react much better to them realizing something than to other telling them they knew that already.






share|improve this answer




























    up vote
    0
    down vote













    This sounds like a mixture of a 360 review and a performance review. These things should be distinct and separate. 360 reviews are generally angled at garnering constructive feedback to help the subject improve, whereas performance reviews are ultimately judgements that may impact their employment.




    What kinds of things should I say to her to convince her that this is a bad idea?




    Ask questions of her to discern what she really wants you to do, and to highlight the challenges you see. E.g. "Since this feedback may affect my manager's review of my performance, should I write this up and then wait to share my feedback until afterwards?"



    Oh, and always write feedback as though it will be read by the person it is about. Even if you end up sending it only to your manager's manager. Keeps things constructive, and helps you sleep at night too.






    share|improve this answer





















    • 360 reviews are baloney in general, and certainly if not anonymous through outside vendor. Even then, only realistic if being participated by quite a number of subordinates. Stress the bolded part above. Do not write a negative review.
      – paulj
      12 hours ago


















    up vote
    0
    down vote













    This is simply a bad idea from the manager but in this case you need to be direct with the manager:




    Hey manager, I am concerned that if my direct manager has access to my review of them, then it could influence their review of myself either positively or negatively




    She may realize that her method is no good, or she may not care and continue anyway but unless you are direct you will never know for sure.



    Also, keep in mind that if you are worried that your direct manager will be biased based upon your review of them it doesn't matter if they see your review before or after they give you a review. If it is after, they can wait until next year to use your review to harm or help you and they can also use that review at any time throughout the year to harm or help you.



    If you ultimately can't trust your direct manager with honest constructive feedback then maybe you should start looking for a different company to work for.






    share|improve this answer





















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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      0
      down vote













      The thing that will help the most is to frame it around general and hypothetical situations. You should not even remotely hint that your current manager might possibly be affected.



      Rather, talk about the general norms of the industry or even of other industry. Why reviewers in academia are double-blind, for example. Frame it as something absolutely optional but that you happen to care about. As if your were nitpicky, or if you wanted to raise the bar super high. "It is not needed at the moment, but in the future we may have someone that could be affected."-type comment.



      That way, you make it clear you absolutely don't think your manager could be affected/biased (even if in reality you do). You also don't give the impression of thinking her idea were half-baked.



      If you have colleagues who think the same way, encourage them to just ask "is it a good idea that feedback is not secret until the end of reviews?". Questions will trigger people actually thinking the process through. Or just ask: "what could be the implications of the reviews being visible?". People react much better to them realizing something than to other telling them they knew that already.






      share|improve this answer

























        up vote
        0
        down vote













        The thing that will help the most is to frame it around general and hypothetical situations. You should not even remotely hint that your current manager might possibly be affected.



        Rather, talk about the general norms of the industry or even of other industry. Why reviewers in academia are double-blind, for example. Frame it as something absolutely optional but that you happen to care about. As if your were nitpicky, or if you wanted to raise the bar super high. "It is not needed at the moment, but in the future we may have someone that could be affected."-type comment.



        That way, you make it clear you absolutely don't think your manager could be affected/biased (even if in reality you do). You also don't give the impression of thinking her idea were half-baked.



        If you have colleagues who think the same way, encourage them to just ask "is it a good idea that feedback is not secret until the end of reviews?". Questions will trigger people actually thinking the process through. Or just ask: "what could be the implications of the reviews being visible?". People react much better to them realizing something than to other telling them they knew that already.






        share|improve this answer























          up vote
          0
          down vote










          up vote
          0
          down vote









          The thing that will help the most is to frame it around general and hypothetical situations. You should not even remotely hint that your current manager might possibly be affected.



          Rather, talk about the general norms of the industry or even of other industry. Why reviewers in academia are double-blind, for example. Frame it as something absolutely optional but that you happen to care about. As if your were nitpicky, or if you wanted to raise the bar super high. "It is not needed at the moment, but in the future we may have someone that could be affected."-type comment.



          That way, you make it clear you absolutely don't think your manager could be affected/biased (even if in reality you do). You also don't give the impression of thinking her idea were half-baked.



          If you have colleagues who think the same way, encourage them to just ask "is it a good idea that feedback is not secret until the end of reviews?". Questions will trigger people actually thinking the process through. Or just ask: "what could be the implications of the reviews being visible?". People react much better to them realizing something than to other telling them they knew that already.






          share|improve this answer












          The thing that will help the most is to frame it around general and hypothetical situations. You should not even remotely hint that your current manager might possibly be affected.



          Rather, talk about the general norms of the industry or even of other industry. Why reviewers in academia are double-blind, for example. Frame it as something absolutely optional but that you happen to care about. As if your were nitpicky, or if you wanted to raise the bar super high. "It is not needed at the moment, but in the future we may have someone that could be affected."-type comment.



          That way, you make it clear you absolutely don't think your manager could be affected/biased (even if in reality you do). You also don't give the impression of thinking her idea were half-baked.



          If you have colleagues who think the same way, encourage them to just ask "is it a good idea that feedback is not secret until the end of reviews?". Questions will trigger people actually thinking the process through. Or just ask: "what could be the implications of the reviews being visible?". People react much better to them realizing something than to other telling them they knew that already.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered yesterday









          Jeffrey

          30017




          30017
























              up vote
              0
              down vote













              This sounds like a mixture of a 360 review and a performance review. These things should be distinct and separate. 360 reviews are generally angled at garnering constructive feedback to help the subject improve, whereas performance reviews are ultimately judgements that may impact their employment.




              What kinds of things should I say to her to convince her that this is a bad idea?




              Ask questions of her to discern what she really wants you to do, and to highlight the challenges you see. E.g. "Since this feedback may affect my manager's review of my performance, should I write this up and then wait to share my feedback until afterwards?"



              Oh, and always write feedback as though it will be read by the person it is about. Even if you end up sending it only to your manager's manager. Keeps things constructive, and helps you sleep at night too.






              share|improve this answer





















              • 360 reviews are baloney in general, and certainly if not anonymous through outside vendor. Even then, only realistic if being participated by quite a number of subordinates. Stress the bolded part above. Do not write a negative review.
                – paulj
                12 hours ago















              up vote
              0
              down vote













              This sounds like a mixture of a 360 review and a performance review. These things should be distinct and separate. 360 reviews are generally angled at garnering constructive feedback to help the subject improve, whereas performance reviews are ultimately judgements that may impact their employment.




              What kinds of things should I say to her to convince her that this is a bad idea?




              Ask questions of her to discern what she really wants you to do, and to highlight the challenges you see. E.g. "Since this feedback may affect my manager's review of my performance, should I write this up and then wait to share my feedback until afterwards?"



              Oh, and always write feedback as though it will be read by the person it is about. Even if you end up sending it only to your manager's manager. Keeps things constructive, and helps you sleep at night too.






              share|improve this answer





















              • 360 reviews are baloney in general, and certainly if not anonymous through outside vendor. Even then, only realistic if being participated by quite a number of subordinates. Stress the bolded part above. Do not write a negative review.
                – paulj
                12 hours ago













              up vote
              0
              down vote










              up vote
              0
              down vote









              This sounds like a mixture of a 360 review and a performance review. These things should be distinct and separate. 360 reviews are generally angled at garnering constructive feedback to help the subject improve, whereas performance reviews are ultimately judgements that may impact their employment.




              What kinds of things should I say to her to convince her that this is a bad idea?




              Ask questions of her to discern what she really wants you to do, and to highlight the challenges you see. E.g. "Since this feedback may affect my manager's review of my performance, should I write this up and then wait to share my feedback until afterwards?"



              Oh, and always write feedback as though it will be read by the person it is about. Even if you end up sending it only to your manager's manager. Keeps things constructive, and helps you sleep at night too.






              share|improve this answer












              This sounds like a mixture of a 360 review and a performance review. These things should be distinct and separate. 360 reviews are generally angled at garnering constructive feedback to help the subject improve, whereas performance reviews are ultimately judgements that may impact their employment.




              What kinds of things should I say to her to convince her that this is a bad idea?




              Ask questions of her to discern what she really wants you to do, and to highlight the challenges you see. E.g. "Since this feedback may affect my manager's review of my performance, should I write this up and then wait to share my feedback until afterwards?"



              Oh, and always write feedback as though it will be read by the person it is about. Even if you end up sending it only to your manager's manager. Keeps things constructive, and helps you sleep at night too.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered 15 hours ago









              JonathanS

              63514




              63514












              • 360 reviews are baloney in general, and certainly if not anonymous through outside vendor. Even then, only realistic if being participated by quite a number of subordinates. Stress the bolded part above. Do not write a negative review.
                – paulj
                12 hours ago


















              • 360 reviews are baloney in general, and certainly if not anonymous through outside vendor. Even then, only realistic if being participated by quite a number of subordinates. Stress the bolded part above. Do not write a negative review.
                – paulj
                12 hours ago
















              360 reviews are baloney in general, and certainly if not anonymous through outside vendor. Even then, only realistic if being participated by quite a number of subordinates. Stress the bolded part above. Do not write a negative review.
              – paulj
              12 hours ago




              360 reviews are baloney in general, and certainly if not anonymous through outside vendor. Even then, only realistic if being participated by quite a number of subordinates. Stress the bolded part above. Do not write a negative review.
              – paulj
              12 hours ago










              up vote
              0
              down vote













              This is simply a bad idea from the manager but in this case you need to be direct with the manager:




              Hey manager, I am concerned that if my direct manager has access to my review of them, then it could influence their review of myself either positively or negatively




              She may realize that her method is no good, or she may not care and continue anyway but unless you are direct you will never know for sure.



              Also, keep in mind that if you are worried that your direct manager will be biased based upon your review of them it doesn't matter if they see your review before or after they give you a review. If it is after, they can wait until next year to use your review to harm or help you and they can also use that review at any time throughout the year to harm or help you.



              If you ultimately can't trust your direct manager with honest constructive feedback then maybe you should start looking for a different company to work for.






              share|improve this answer

























                up vote
                0
                down vote













                This is simply a bad idea from the manager but in this case you need to be direct with the manager:




                Hey manager, I am concerned that if my direct manager has access to my review of them, then it could influence their review of myself either positively or negatively




                She may realize that her method is no good, or she may not care and continue anyway but unless you are direct you will never know for sure.



                Also, keep in mind that if you are worried that your direct manager will be biased based upon your review of them it doesn't matter if they see your review before or after they give you a review. If it is after, they can wait until next year to use your review to harm or help you and they can also use that review at any time throughout the year to harm or help you.



                If you ultimately can't trust your direct manager with honest constructive feedback then maybe you should start looking for a different company to work for.






                share|improve this answer























                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote









                  This is simply a bad idea from the manager but in this case you need to be direct with the manager:




                  Hey manager, I am concerned that if my direct manager has access to my review of them, then it could influence their review of myself either positively or negatively




                  She may realize that her method is no good, or she may not care and continue anyway but unless you are direct you will never know for sure.



                  Also, keep in mind that if you are worried that your direct manager will be biased based upon your review of them it doesn't matter if they see your review before or after they give you a review. If it is after, they can wait until next year to use your review to harm or help you and they can also use that review at any time throughout the year to harm or help you.



                  If you ultimately can't trust your direct manager with honest constructive feedback then maybe you should start looking for a different company to work for.






                  share|improve this answer












                  This is simply a bad idea from the manager but in this case you need to be direct with the manager:




                  Hey manager, I am concerned that if my direct manager has access to my review of them, then it could influence their review of myself either positively or negatively




                  She may realize that her method is no good, or she may not care and continue anyway but unless you are direct you will never know for sure.



                  Also, keep in mind that if you are worried that your direct manager will be biased based upon your review of them it doesn't matter if they see your review before or after they give you a review. If it is after, they can wait until next year to use your review to harm or help you and they can also use that review at any time throughout the year to harm or help you.



                  If you ultimately can't trust your direct manager with honest constructive feedback then maybe you should start looking for a different company to work for.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 11 hours ago









                  sf02

                  86718




                  86718






























                       

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