How can communism be totalitarian?
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I'm quite a newbie to history and politics so a sentence from Huxley surprised me (it might not be surprising for you). In Brave new world revisited (1958) he writes:
It is a pretty safe bet that, twenty years from now, all the worlds over-populated and underdeveloped countries will be under some form of totalitarian rule – probably by the communist party.
I have three questions:
- How can communism be totalitarian?
- Is there any simple way to see how communism leads to totalitarian governments?
- Was Huxley right (are South American countries mostly under totalitarian-communist governments?)?
political-history communism
migrated from history.stackexchange.com 3 hours ago
This question came from our site for historians and history buffs.
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up vote
2
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I'm quite a newbie to history and politics so a sentence from Huxley surprised me (it might not be surprising for you). In Brave new world revisited (1958) he writes:
It is a pretty safe bet that, twenty years from now, all the worlds over-populated and underdeveloped countries will be under some form of totalitarian rule – probably by the communist party.
I have three questions:
- How can communism be totalitarian?
- Is there any simple way to see how communism leads to totalitarian governments?
- Was Huxley right (are South American countries mostly under totalitarian-communist governments?)?
political-history communism
migrated from history.stackexchange.com 3 hours ago
This question came from our site for historians and history buffs.
Hmm you're right, i thought of this site mainly because of the evidence from communist totalitarian governments should come from history. Is it possible to move the question? @SamuelRussell
– santimirandarp
3 hours ago
1
How can communism NOT be totalitarian? The system guarantees that a certain percentage of the population will think that they are working harder than they need to and/or getting less than they deserve. Totalitarianism is the only way to keep such people in line.
– jamesqf
58 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
I'm quite a newbie to history and politics so a sentence from Huxley surprised me (it might not be surprising for you). In Brave new world revisited (1958) he writes:
It is a pretty safe bet that, twenty years from now, all the worlds over-populated and underdeveloped countries will be under some form of totalitarian rule – probably by the communist party.
I have three questions:
- How can communism be totalitarian?
- Is there any simple way to see how communism leads to totalitarian governments?
- Was Huxley right (are South American countries mostly under totalitarian-communist governments?)?
political-history communism
I'm quite a newbie to history and politics so a sentence from Huxley surprised me (it might not be surprising for you). In Brave new world revisited (1958) he writes:
It is a pretty safe bet that, twenty years from now, all the worlds over-populated and underdeveloped countries will be under some form of totalitarian rule – probably by the communist party.
I have three questions:
- How can communism be totalitarian?
- Is there any simple way to see how communism leads to totalitarian governments?
- Was Huxley right (are South American countries mostly under totalitarian-communist governments?)?
political-history communism
political-history communism
asked 3 hours ago
santimirandarp
1113
1113
migrated from history.stackexchange.com 3 hours ago
This question came from our site for historians and history buffs.
migrated from history.stackexchange.com 3 hours ago
This question came from our site for historians and history buffs.
Hmm you're right, i thought of this site mainly because of the evidence from communist totalitarian governments should come from history. Is it possible to move the question? @SamuelRussell
– santimirandarp
3 hours ago
1
How can communism NOT be totalitarian? The system guarantees that a certain percentage of the population will think that they are working harder than they need to and/or getting less than they deserve. Totalitarianism is the only way to keep such people in line.
– jamesqf
58 mins ago
add a comment |
Hmm you're right, i thought of this site mainly because of the evidence from communist totalitarian governments should come from history. Is it possible to move the question? @SamuelRussell
– santimirandarp
3 hours ago
1
How can communism NOT be totalitarian? The system guarantees that a certain percentage of the population will think that they are working harder than they need to and/or getting less than they deserve. Totalitarianism is the only way to keep such people in line.
– jamesqf
58 mins ago
Hmm you're right, i thought of this site mainly because of the evidence from communist totalitarian governments should come from history. Is it possible to move the question? @SamuelRussell
– santimirandarp
3 hours ago
Hmm you're right, i thought of this site mainly because of the evidence from communist totalitarian governments should come from history. Is it possible to move the question? @SamuelRussell
– santimirandarp
3 hours ago
1
1
How can communism NOT be totalitarian? The system guarantees that a certain percentage of the population will think that they are working harder than they need to and/or getting less than they deserve. Totalitarianism is the only way to keep such people in line.
– jamesqf
58 mins ago
How can communism NOT be totalitarian? The system guarantees that a certain percentage of the population will think that they are working harder than they need to and/or getting less than they deserve. Totalitarianism is the only way to keep such people in line.
– jamesqf
58 mins ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
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4
down vote
Huxley lays out four terms:
over population
under development
communist party (not communism)
totalitarian
We must also add your term:
- communism
All these terms are politically charged. Their meanings are debated, and the debate has been around advancing current political conflicts.
How can communism be totalitarian?
Communist parties, being in 1958 Stalinist style parties including the Chinese party, were widely believed to be “totalitarian” in Huxley’s society. This meant that people believed the communist party “totalised” all social relationships under party supervision. There are problems with this term, such as “my dictator is merely authoritarian, your dictator is disgustingly totalitarian.” The term is also descriptive rather than theorised. It is a terribly poor match for the way actual party power operated in Stalinist societies, where nomenklatura power was as bottom up as top down.
Communism, being a hypothesised post-scarcity classless society, is not liable to totalisation.
Communism, being the actual societies of the states of Central Europe and East Asia controlled by Stalinist type parties, meets the descriptive term’s meaning adequately—noting again that the term is a poor one.
Is there any simple way to see how communism leads to totalitarian governments?
Some scholars accuse that the project of communism, the project of working class self emancipation, necessarily requires the working class to become a totalising agent: to repress all other classes and to repress itself. This is as speculative as communism itself.
Many scholars claim that historical movements purporting to be communist actually totalised societies. How a minority conspiracy of bourgeois intellectuals are capable of acting as the entire working class is a matter for Leninist apologetics. That communist parties purported to be in favour of communism is undeniable, even if many supporters of working class revolution suggest they were not actually in favour of communism.
It is undeniable that Bolshevik parties destroyed working class and left wing opposition groups. Whether class struggle or party culture caused this is a matter of debate. We don’t know why Bolshevik parties “totalised” societies. The leading arguments are: class struggle was so hard they had to be even harder; that Bolsheviks substitute themselves for the working class at the level of praxis and thus are anti-worker; and, that all communists are evil.
Was Huxley right (are South American countries mostly under totalitarian-communist governments?)?
South American countries aren’t over populated. South American countries aren’t under developed. South American countries aren’t under Stalinist type governments.
1
It would certainly appear that Venezuela is currently experiencing a Stalinist-style Holomodor.
– Pieter Geerkens
2 hours ago
Tauger (1991) “The 1932 Harvest” Slavic Review fn 53, p89: despite available grain and state attempts to ameliorate, the destroyed logistics network meant failed subsistence mandated famine. In contrast Venezuela is a non subsistence food importer: there the state has failed to even possess sufficient food for distribution. Bad comparison, Stalinists tried to relieve famine in 1932. Of course they’d destroyed the rural petite-bourgeois who were the logistics network that could have made that desire make any sense.
– Samuel Russell
2 hours ago
Why would you suggest that South American countries aren't over-populated? The site you link to over-estimates the Earth's carrying capacity by an order of magnitude or more.
– jamesqf
55 mins ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
4
down vote
Huxley lays out four terms:
over population
under development
communist party (not communism)
totalitarian
We must also add your term:
- communism
All these terms are politically charged. Their meanings are debated, and the debate has been around advancing current political conflicts.
How can communism be totalitarian?
Communist parties, being in 1958 Stalinist style parties including the Chinese party, were widely believed to be “totalitarian” in Huxley’s society. This meant that people believed the communist party “totalised” all social relationships under party supervision. There are problems with this term, such as “my dictator is merely authoritarian, your dictator is disgustingly totalitarian.” The term is also descriptive rather than theorised. It is a terribly poor match for the way actual party power operated in Stalinist societies, where nomenklatura power was as bottom up as top down.
Communism, being a hypothesised post-scarcity classless society, is not liable to totalisation.
Communism, being the actual societies of the states of Central Europe and East Asia controlled by Stalinist type parties, meets the descriptive term’s meaning adequately—noting again that the term is a poor one.
Is there any simple way to see how communism leads to totalitarian governments?
Some scholars accuse that the project of communism, the project of working class self emancipation, necessarily requires the working class to become a totalising agent: to repress all other classes and to repress itself. This is as speculative as communism itself.
Many scholars claim that historical movements purporting to be communist actually totalised societies. How a minority conspiracy of bourgeois intellectuals are capable of acting as the entire working class is a matter for Leninist apologetics. That communist parties purported to be in favour of communism is undeniable, even if many supporters of working class revolution suggest they were not actually in favour of communism.
It is undeniable that Bolshevik parties destroyed working class and left wing opposition groups. Whether class struggle or party culture caused this is a matter of debate. We don’t know why Bolshevik parties “totalised” societies. The leading arguments are: class struggle was so hard they had to be even harder; that Bolsheviks substitute themselves for the working class at the level of praxis and thus are anti-worker; and, that all communists are evil.
Was Huxley right (are South American countries mostly under totalitarian-communist governments?)?
South American countries aren’t over populated. South American countries aren’t under developed. South American countries aren’t under Stalinist type governments.
1
It would certainly appear that Venezuela is currently experiencing a Stalinist-style Holomodor.
– Pieter Geerkens
2 hours ago
Tauger (1991) “The 1932 Harvest” Slavic Review fn 53, p89: despite available grain and state attempts to ameliorate, the destroyed logistics network meant failed subsistence mandated famine. In contrast Venezuela is a non subsistence food importer: there the state has failed to even possess sufficient food for distribution. Bad comparison, Stalinists tried to relieve famine in 1932. Of course they’d destroyed the rural petite-bourgeois who were the logistics network that could have made that desire make any sense.
– Samuel Russell
2 hours ago
Why would you suggest that South American countries aren't over-populated? The site you link to over-estimates the Earth's carrying capacity by an order of magnitude or more.
– jamesqf
55 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
Huxley lays out four terms:
over population
under development
communist party (not communism)
totalitarian
We must also add your term:
- communism
All these terms are politically charged. Their meanings are debated, and the debate has been around advancing current political conflicts.
How can communism be totalitarian?
Communist parties, being in 1958 Stalinist style parties including the Chinese party, were widely believed to be “totalitarian” in Huxley’s society. This meant that people believed the communist party “totalised” all social relationships under party supervision. There are problems with this term, such as “my dictator is merely authoritarian, your dictator is disgustingly totalitarian.” The term is also descriptive rather than theorised. It is a terribly poor match for the way actual party power operated in Stalinist societies, where nomenklatura power was as bottom up as top down.
Communism, being a hypothesised post-scarcity classless society, is not liable to totalisation.
Communism, being the actual societies of the states of Central Europe and East Asia controlled by Stalinist type parties, meets the descriptive term’s meaning adequately—noting again that the term is a poor one.
Is there any simple way to see how communism leads to totalitarian governments?
Some scholars accuse that the project of communism, the project of working class self emancipation, necessarily requires the working class to become a totalising agent: to repress all other classes and to repress itself. This is as speculative as communism itself.
Many scholars claim that historical movements purporting to be communist actually totalised societies. How a minority conspiracy of bourgeois intellectuals are capable of acting as the entire working class is a matter for Leninist apologetics. That communist parties purported to be in favour of communism is undeniable, even if many supporters of working class revolution suggest they were not actually in favour of communism.
It is undeniable that Bolshevik parties destroyed working class and left wing opposition groups. Whether class struggle or party culture caused this is a matter of debate. We don’t know why Bolshevik parties “totalised” societies. The leading arguments are: class struggle was so hard they had to be even harder; that Bolsheviks substitute themselves for the working class at the level of praxis and thus are anti-worker; and, that all communists are evil.
Was Huxley right (are South American countries mostly under totalitarian-communist governments?)?
South American countries aren’t over populated. South American countries aren’t under developed. South American countries aren’t under Stalinist type governments.
1
It would certainly appear that Venezuela is currently experiencing a Stalinist-style Holomodor.
– Pieter Geerkens
2 hours ago
Tauger (1991) “The 1932 Harvest” Slavic Review fn 53, p89: despite available grain and state attempts to ameliorate, the destroyed logistics network meant failed subsistence mandated famine. In contrast Venezuela is a non subsistence food importer: there the state has failed to even possess sufficient food for distribution. Bad comparison, Stalinists tried to relieve famine in 1932. Of course they’d destroyed the rural petite-bourgeois who were the logistics network that could have made that desire make any sense.
– Samuel Russell
2 hours ago
Why would you suggest that South American countries aren't over-populated? The site you link to over-estimates the Earth's carrying capacity by an order of magnitude or more.
– jamesqf
55 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
Huxley lays out four terms:
over population
under development
communist party (not communism)
totalitarian
We must also add your term:
- communism
All these terms are politically charged. Their meanings are debated, and the debate has been around advancing current political conflicts.
How can communism be totalitarian?
Communist parties, being in 1958 Stalinist style parties including the Chinese party, were widely believed to be “totalitarian” in Huxley’s society. This meant that people believed the communist party “totalised” all social relationships under party supervision. There are problems with this term, such as “my dictator is merely authoritarian, your dictator is disgustingly totalitarian.” The term is also descriptive rather than theorised. It is a terribly poor match for the way actual party power operated in Stalinist societies, where nomenklatura power was as bottom up as top down.
Communism, being a hypothesised post-scarcity classless society, is not liable to totalisation.
Communism, being the actual societies of the states of Central Europe and East Asia controlled by Stalinist type parties, meets the descriptive term’s meaning adequately—noting again that the term is a poor one.
Is there any simple way to see how communism leads to totalitarian governments?
Some scholars accuse that the project of communism, the project of working class self emancipation, necessarily requires the working class to become a totalising agent: to repress all other classes and to repress itself. This is as speculative as communism itself.
Many scholars claim that historical movements purporting to be communist actually totalised societies. How a minority conspiracy of bourgeois intellectuals are capable of acting as the entire working class is a matter for Leninist apologetics. That communist parties purported to be in favour of communism is undeniable, even if many supporters of working class revolution suggest they were not actually in favour of communism.
It is undeniable that Bolshevik parties destroyed working class and left wing opposition groups. Whether class struggle or party culture caused this is a matter of debate. We don’t know why Bolshevik parties “totalised” societies. The leading arguments are: class struggle was so hard they had to be even harder; that Bolsheviks substitute themselves for the working class at the level of praxis and thus are anti-worker; and, that all communists are evil.
Was Huxley right (are South American countries mostly under totalitarian-communist governments?)?
South American countries aren’t over populated. South American countries aren’t under developed. South American countries aren’t under Stalinist type governments.
Huxley lays out four terms:
over population
under development
communist party (not communism)
totalitarian
We must also add your term:
- communism
All these terms are politically charged. Their meanings are debated, and the debate has been around advancing current political conflicts.
How can communism be totalitarian?
Communist parties, being in 1958 Stalinist style parties including the Chinese party, were widely believed to be “totalitarian” in Huxley’s society. This meant that people believed the communist party “totalised” all social relationships under party supervision. There are problems with this term, such as “my dictator is merely authoritarian, your dictator is disgustingly totalitarian.” The term is also descriptive rather than theorised. It is a terribly poor match for the way actual party power operated in Stalinist societies, where nomenklatura power was as bottom up as top down.
Communism, being a hypothesised post-scarcity classless society, is not liable to totalisation.
Communism, being the actual societies of the states of Central Europe and East Asia controlled by Stalinist type parties, meets the descriptive term’s meaning adequately—noting again that the term is a poor one.
Is there any simple way to see how communism leads to totalitarian governments?
Some scholars accuse that the project of communism, the project of working class self emancipation, necessarily requires the working class to become a totalising agent: to repress all other classes and to repress itself. This is as speculative as communism itself.
Many scholars claim that historical movements purporting to be communist actually totalised societies. How a minority conspiracy of bourgeois intellectuals are capable of acting as the entire working class is a matter for Leninist apologetics. That communist parties purported to be in favour of communism is undeniable, even if many supporters of working class revolution suggest they were not actually in favour of communism.
It is undeniable that Bolshevik parties destroyed working class and left wing opposition groups. Whether class struggle or party culture caused this is a matter of debate. We don’t know why Bolshevik parties “totalised” societies. The leading arguments are: class struggle was so hard they had to be even harder; that Bolsheviks substitute themselves for the working class at the level of praxis and thus are anti-worker; and, that all communists are evil.
Was Huxley right (are South American countries mostly under totalitarian-communist governments?)?
South American countries aren’t over populated. South American countries aren’t under developed. South American countries aren’t under Stalinist type governments.
answered 3 hours ago
Samuel Russell
3,1511131
3,1511131
1
It would certainly appear that Venezuela is currently experiencing a Stalinist-style Holomodor.
– Pieter Geerkens
2 hours ago
Tauger (1991) “The 1932 Harvest” Slavic Review fn 53, p89: despite available grain and state attempts to ameliorate, the destroyed logistics network meant failed subsistence mandated famine. In contrast Venezuela is a non subsistence food importer: there the state has failed to even possess sufficient food for distribution. Bad comparison, Stalinists tried to relieve famine in 1932. Of course they’d destroyed the rural petite-bourgeois who were the logistics network that could have made that desire make any sense.
– Samuel Russell
2 hours ago
Why would you suggest that South American countries aren't over-populated? The site you link to over-estimates the Earth's carrying capacity by an order of magnitude or more.
– jamesqf
55 mins ago
add a comment |
1
It would certainly appear that Venezuela is currently experiencing a Stalinist-style Holomodor.
– Pieter Geerkens
2 hours ago
Tauger (1991) “The 1932 Harvest” Slavic Review fn 53, p89: despite available grain and state attempts to ameliorate, the destroyed logistics network meant failed subsistence mandated famine. In contrast Venezuela is a non subsistence food importer: there the state has failed to even possess sufficient food for distribution. Bad comparison, Stalinists tried to relieve famine in 1932. Of course they’d destroyed the rural petite-bourgeois who were the logistics network that could have made that desire make any sense.
– Samuel Russell
2 hours ago
Why would you suggest that South American countries aren't over-populated? The site you link to over-estimates the Earth's carrying capacity by an order of magnitude or more.
– jamesqf
55 mins ago
1
1
It would certainly appear that Venezuela is currently experiencing a Stalinist-style Holomodor.
– Pieter Geerkens
2 hours ago
It would certainly appear that Venezuela is currently experiencing a Stalinist-style Holomodor.
– Pieter Geerkens
2 hours ago
Tauger (1991) “The 1932 Harvest” Slavic Review fn 53, p89: despite available grain and state attempts to ameliorate, the destroyed logistics network meant failed subsistence mandated famine. In contrast Venezuela is a non subsistence food importer: there the state has failed to even possess sufficient food for distribution. Bad comparison, Stalinists tried to relieve famine in 1932. Of course they’d destroyed the rural petite-bourgeois who were the logistics network that could have made that desire make any sense.
– Samuel Russell
2 hours ago
Tauger (1991) “The 1932 Harvest” Slavic Review fn 53, p89: despite available grain and state attempts to ameliorate, the destroyed logistics network meant failed subsistence mandated famine. In contrast Venezuela is a non subsistence food importer: there the state has failed to even possess sufficient food for distribution. Bad comparison, Stalinists tried to relieve famine in 1932. Of course they’d destroyed the rural petite-bourgeois who were the logistics network that could have made that desire make any sense.
– Samuel Russell
2 hours ago
Why would you suggest that South American countries aren't over-populated? The site you link to over-estimates the Earth's carrying capacity by an order of magnitude or more.
– jamesqf
55 mins ago
Why would you suggest that South American countries aren't over-populated? The site you link to over-estimates the Earth's carrying capacity by an order of magnitude or more.
– jamesqf
55 mins ago
add a comment |
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Hmm you're right, i thought of this site mainly because of the evidence from communist totalitarian governments should come from history. Is it possible to move the question? @SamuelRussell
– santimirandarp
3 hours ago
1
How can communism NOT be totalitarian? The system guarantees that a certain percentage of the population will think that they are working harder than they need to and/or getting less than they deserve. Totalitarianism is the only way to keep such people in line.
– jamesqf
58 mins ago