Does the spell Fog Cloud obscure light sources?












13














Consider this very basic scenario:




  • I grab a rock, and cast the cantrip Light on it, choosing a violet hue as the color for the light.

  • I set the rock down on the ground

  • I cast Fog Cloud in the area surrounding the lit-up rock


Light reads as casting bright light in a 20' radius, and dim light another 20' away, and Fog Cloud (cast as a first level spell) has a 20' radius. So what happens in this scenario?



Does the





  • Fog Cloud completely obscure the light source, including the dim light shining 20' outside the Fog Cloud itself?


  • Light shine outside the Fog Cloud, providing dim light within 20' of the fog cloud?

  • light from the Light spell diffuse through the Fog Cloud, creating a colored fog cloud?










share|improve this question





























    13














    Consider this very basic scenario:




    • I grab a rock, and cast the cantrip Light on it, choosing a violet hue as the color for the light.

    • I set the rock down on the ground

    • I cast Fog Cloud in the area surrounding the lit-up rock


    Light reads as casting bright light in a 20' radius, and dim light another 20' away, and Fog Cloud (cast as a first level spell) has a 20' radius. So what happens in this scenario?



    Does the





    • Fog Cloud completely obscure the light source, including the dim light shining 20' outside the Fog Cloud itself?


    • Light shine outside the Fog Cloud, providing dim light within 20' of the fog cloud?

    • light from the Light spell diffuse through the Fog Cloud, creating a colored fog cloud?










    share|improve this question



























      13












      13








      13


      1





      Consider this very basic scenario:




      • I grab a rock, and cast the cantrip Light on it, choosing a violet hue as the color for the light.

      • I set the rock down on the ground

      • I cast Fog Cloud in the area surrounding the lit-up rock


      Light reads as casting bright light in a 20' radius, and dim light another 20' away, and Fog Cloud (cast as a first level spell) has a 20' radius. So what happens in this scenario?



      Does the





      • Fog Cloud completely obscure the light source, including the dim light shining 20' outside the Fog Cloud itself?


      • Light shine outside the Fog Cloud, providing dim light within 20' of the fog cloud?

      • light from the Light spell diffuse through the Fog Cloud, creating a colored fog cloud?










      share|improve this question















      Consider this very basic scenario:




      • I grab a rock, and cast the cantrip Light on it, choosing a violet hue as the color for the light.

      • I set the rock down on the ground

      • I cast Fog Cloud in the area surrounding the lit-up rock


      Light reads as casting bright light in a 20' radius, and dim light another 20' away, and Fog Cloud (cast as a first level spell) has a 20' radius. So what happens in this scenario?



      Does the





      • Fog Cloud completely obscure the light source, including the dim light shining 20' outside the Fog Cloud itself?


      • Light shine outside the Fog Cloud, providing dim light within 20' of the fog cloud?

      • light from the Light spell diffuse through the Fog Cloud, creating a colored fog cloud?







      dnd-5e spells vision-and-light






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited Dec 10 at 20:09









      SevenSidedDie

      204k29656932




      204k29656932










      asked Dec 10 at 16:17









      Xirema

      15.4k24593




      15.4k24593






















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          23














          First off, officially speaking, a spell only does what it says it does. A fog cloud spell creates a sphere of fog, which creates a heavily obscured area. It doesn't explicitly block or douse lights inside the area, as a darkness spell does, so the next thing is to look at what "obscured" does.




          A heavily obscured area [...] blocks vision entirely. A creature in a heavily obscured area effectively suffers from the blinded condition




          The errata adds:




          A heavily obscured area doesn't blind you, but you are effectively blinded when you try to see something obscured by it.




          Nothing in there mentions blocking light, only that you can't see through it. This fits well with our everyday understanding of what fog is like; light diffuses through it but is not actually blocked.



          For the purpose of the game, then, the light (bright or dim) would extend beyond the fog cloud to the normal distance. The visual effect of this is up to the DM, but yes, in real life, a light in a fog cloud makes the cloud glow from inside, so it's reasonable for the DM to rule that the cloud lights up that way.






          share|improve this answer

















          • 3




            I'm never a fan of using real life physics to explain magical physics, but I like how you've addressed the difference between blinded and effectively blinded along with the comparison against darkness. I think you've got a great answer without bringing in real world physics.
            – NautArch
            Dec 10 at 17:34








          • 3




            I agree, this is one case where despite not being explicitly based on physics, the rules actually line up pretty well with what would happen in real life.
            – Ryan Thompson
            Dec 10 at 17:39



















          12














          According to this tweet by Jeremy Crawford, Fog Cloud blocks vision, not light:




          The fog cloud spell blocks vision. It doesn't eliminate light.




          So the fog cloud will make it impossible to see your rock, but the rock will cast light inside or outside the fog cloud as normal.






          share|improve this answer































            3














            The Light Source is completely obscured



            In the Player's Handbook, in Chapter 8: Adventuring, under Environment section, the paragraph on Vision and Light reads as follows, with respect to "Heavy Obscurement":




            A heavily obscured area—such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage—blocks vision entirely. A creature in a heavily obscured area effectively suffers from the blinded condition (see the appendix). A heavily obscured area doesn't blind you, but you are effectively blinded when you try to see something obscured by it.




            Since the Light source is inside the Fog Cloud, and the Fog Cloud specifically dictates that it generates a "Heavily Obscured" area, it would not be possible to see the Light source—or anything else—inside the Fog Cloud without some kind of ability to see through the Fog Cloud itself.






            share|improve this answer























            • It's possible that the light source could be completely obscured, while it still makes the fog cloud glow. And this glow could still provide illumination outside the fog cloud. "Completely Obscured" isn't the same as darkness. I don't see any rule that makes a fog cloud change the radius of bright and dim light sources.
              – bvstuart
              Dec 10 at 17:11












            • @bvstuart If you can find text to support this interpretation, it would be better to post this as its own answer to this question.
              – Xirema
              Dec 10 at 17:12










            • With a strong flashlight directed at your face you can't see a flashlight, but you do see light. On the other hand, spells only do what they say they do, and fog does not say it blocks light, only obscures thingd. Thus, your answer is valid literal answer to the title of the question, but not the spirit of it or three bullets at the end of it.
              – Mołot
              Dec 11 at 15:05











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            3 Answers
            3






            active

            oldest

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            3 Answers
            3






            active

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            active

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            active

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            23














            First off, officially speaking, a spell only does what it says it does. A fog cloud spell creates a sphere of fog, which creates a heavily obscured area. It doesn't explicitly block or douse lights inside the area, as a darkness spell does, so the next thing is to look at what "obscured" does.




            A heavily obscured area [...] blocks vision entirely. A creature in a heavily obscured area effectively suffers from the blinded condition




            The errata adds:




            A heavily obscured area doesn't blind you, but you are effectively blinded when you try to see something obscured by it.




            Nothing in there mentions blocking light, only that you can't see through it. This fits well with our everyday understanding of what fog is like; light diffuses through it but is not actually blocked.



            For the purpose of the game, then, the light (bright or dim) would extend beyond the fog cloud to the normal distance. The visual effect of this is up to the DM, but yes, in real life, a light in a fog cloud makes the cloud glow from inside, so it's reasonable for the DM to rule that the cloud lights up that way.






            share|improve this answer

















            • 3




              I'm never a fan of using real life physics to explain magical physics, but I like how you've addressed the difference between blinded and effectively blinded along with the comparison against darkness. I think you've got a great answer without bringing in real world physics.
              – NautArch
              Dec 10 at 17:34








            • 3




              I agree, this is one case where despite not being explicitly based on physics, the rules actually line up pretty well with what would happen in real life.
              – Ryan Thompson
              Dec 10 at 17:39
















            23














            First off, officially speaking, a spell only does what it says it does. A fog cloud spell creates a sphere of fog, which creates a heavily obscured area. It doesn't explicitly block or douse lights inside the area, as a darkness spell does, so the next thing is to look at what "obscured" does.




            A heavily obscured area [...] blocks vision entirely. A creature in a heavily obscured area effectively suffers from the blinded condition




            The errata adds:




            A heavily obscured area doesn't blind you, but you are effectively blinded when you try to see something obscured by it.




            Nothing in there mentions blocking light, only that you can't see through it. This fits well with our everyday understanding of what fog is like; light diffuses through it but is not actually blocked.



            For the purpose of the game, then, the light (bright or dim) would extend beyond the fog cloud to the normal distance. The visual effect of this is up to the DM, but yes, in real life, a light in a fog cloud makes the cloud glow from inside, so it's reasonable for the DM to rule that the cloud lights up that way.






            share|improve this answer

















            • 3




              I'm never a fan of using real life physics to explain magical physics, but I like how you've addressed the difference between blinded and effectively blinded along with the comparison against darkness. I think you've got a great answer without bringing in real world physics.
              – NautArch
              Dec 10 at 17:34








            • 3




              I agree, this is one case where despite not being explicitly based on physics, the rules actually line up pretty well with what would happen in real life.
              – Ryan Thompson
              Dec 10 at 17:39














            23












            23








            23






            First off, officially speaking, a spell only does what it says it does. A fog cloud spell creates a sphere of fog, which creates a heavily obscured area. It doesn't explicitly block or douse lights inside the area, as a darkness spell does, so the next thing is to look at what "obscured" does.




            A heavily obscured area [...] blocks vision entirely. A creature in a heavily obscured area effectively suffers from the blinded condition




            The errata adds:




            A heavily obscured area doesn't blind you, but you are effectively blinded when you try to see something obscured by it.




            Nothing in there mentions blocking light, only that you can't see through it. This fits well with our everyday understanding of what fog is like; light diffuses through it but is not actually blocked.



            For the purpose of the game, then, the light (bright or dim) would extend beyond the fog cloud to the normal distance. The visual effect of this is up to the DM, but yes, in real life, a light in a fog cloud makes the cloud glow from inside, so it's reasonable for the DM to rule that the cloud lights up that way.






            share|improve this answer












            First off, officially speaking, a spell only does what it says it does. A fog cloud spell creates a sphere of fog, which creates a heavily obscured area. It doesn't explicitly block or douse lights inside the area, as a darkness spell does, so the next thing is to look at what "obscured" does.




            A heavily obscured area [...] blocks vision entirely. A creature in a heavily obscured area effectively suffers from the blinded condition




            The errata adds:




            A heavily obscured area doesn't blind you, but you are effectively blinded when you try to see something obscured by it.




            Nothing in there mentions blocking light, only that you can't see through it. This fits well with our everyday understanding of what fog is like; light diffuses through it but is not actually blocked.



            For the purpose of the game, then, the light (bright or dim) would extend beyond the fog cloud to the normal distance. The visual effect of this is up to the DM, but yes, in real life, a light in a fog cloud makes the cloud glow from inside, so it's reasonable for the DM to rule that the cloud lights up that way.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered Dec 10 at 17:27









            Darth Pseudonym

            11.2k12862




            11.2k12862








            • 3




              I'm never a fan of using real life physics to explain magical physics, but I like how you've addressed the difference between blinded and effectively blinded along with the comparison against darkness. I think you've got a great answer without bringing in real world physics.
              – NautArch
              Dec 10 at 17:34








            • 3




              I agree, this is one case where despite not being explicitly based on physics, the rules actually line up pretty well with what would happen in real life.
              – Ryan Thompson
              Dec 10 at 17:39














            • 3




              I'm never a fan of using real life physics to explain magical physics, but I like how you've addressed the difference between blinded and effectively blinded along with the comparison against darkness. I think you've got a great answer without bringing in real world physics.
              – NautArch
              Dec 10 at 17:34








            • 3




              I agree, this is one case where despite not being explicitly based on physics, the rules actually line up pretty well with what would happen in real life.
              – Ryan Thompson
              Dec 10 at 17:39








            3




            3




            I'm never a fan of using real life physics to explain magical physics, but I like how you've addressed the difference between blinded and effectively blinded along with the comparison against darkness. I think you've got a great answer without bringing in real world physics.
            – NautArch
            Dec 10 at 17:34






            I'm never a fan of using real life physics to explain magical physics, but I like how you've addressed the difference between blinded and effectively blinded along with the comparison against darkness. I think you've got a great answer without bringing in real world physics.
            – NautArch
            Dec 10 at 17:34






            3




            3




            I agree, this is one case where despite not being explicitly based on physics, the rules actually line up pretty well with what would happen in real life.
            – Ryan Thompson
            Dec 10 at 17:39




            I agree, this is one case where despite not being explicitly based on physics, the rules actually line up pretty well with what would happen in real life.
            – Ryan Thompson
            Dec 10 at 17:39













            12














            According to this tweet by Jeremy Crawford, Fog Cloud blocks vision, not light:




            The fog cloud spell blocks vision. It doesn't eliminate light.




            So the fog cloud will make it impossible to see your rock, but the rock will cast light inside or outside the fog cloud as normal.






            share|improve this answer




























              12














              According to this tweet by Jeremy Crawford, Fog Cloud blocks vision, not light:




              The fog cloud spell blocks vision. It doesn't eliminate light.




              So the fog cloud will make it impossible to see your rock, but the rock will cast light inside or outside the fog cloud as normal.






              share|improve this answer


























                12












                12








                12






                According to this tweet by Jeremy Crawford, Fog Cloud blocks vision, not light:




                The fog cloud spell blocks vision. It doesn't eliminate light.




                So the fog cloud will make it impossible to see your rock, but the rock will cast light inside or outside the fog cloud as normal.






                share|improve this answer














                According to this tweet by Jeremy Crawford, Fog Cloud blocks vision, not light:




                The fog cloud spell blocks vision. It doesn't eliminate light.




                So the fog cloud will make it impossible to see your rock, but the rock will cast light inside or outside the fog cloud as normal.







                share|improve this answer














                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited Dec 10 at 17:36









                NautArch

                52.8k8186356




                52.8k8186356










                answered Dec 10 at 17:21









                bvstuart

                1,053310




                1,053310























                    3














                    The Light Source is completely obscured



                    In the Player's Handbook, in Chapter 8: Adventuring, under Environment section, the paragraph on Vision and Light reads as follows, with respect to "Heavy Obscurement":




                    A heavily obscured area—such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage—blocks vision entirely. A creature in a heavily obscured area effectively suffers from the blinded condition (see the appendix). A heavily obscured area doesn't blind you, but you are effectively blinded when you try to see something obscured by it.




                    Since the Light source is inside the Fog Cloud, and the Fog Cloud specifically dictates that it generates a "Heavily Obscured" area, it would not be possible to see the Light source—or anything else—inside the Fog Cloud without some kind of ability to see through the Fog Cloud itself.






                    share|improve this answer























                    • It's possible that the light source could be completely obscured, while it still makes the fog cloud glow. And this glow could still provide illumination outside the fog cloud. "Completely Obscured" isn't the same as darkness. I don't see any rule that makes a fog cloud change the radius of bright and dim light sources.
                      – bvstuart
                      Dec 10 at 17:11












                    • @bvstuart If you can find text to support this interpretation, it would be better to post this as its own answer to this question.
                      – Xirema
                      Dec 10 at 17:12










                    • With a strong flashlight directed at your face you can't see a flashlight, but you do see light. On the other hand, spells only do what they say they do, and fog does not say it blocks light, only obscures thingd. Thus, your answer is valid literal answer to the title of the question, but not the spirit of it or three bullets at the end of it.
                      – Mołot
                      Dec 11 at 15:05
















                    3














                    The Light Source is completely obscured



                    In the Player's Handbook, in Chapter 8: Adventuring, under Environment section, the paragraph on Vision and Light reads as follows, with respect to "Heavy Obscurement":




                    A heavily obscured area—such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage—blocks vision entirely. A creature in a heavily obscured area effectively suffers from the blinded condition (see the appendix). A heavily obscured area doesn't blind you, but you are effectively blinded when you try to see something obscured by it.




                    Since the Light source is inside the Fog Cloud, and the Fog Cloud specifically dictates that it generates a "Heavily Obscured" area, it would not be possible to see the Light source—or anything else—inside the Fog Cloud without some kind of ability to see through the Fog Cloud itself.






                    share|improve this answer























                    • It's possible that the light source could be completely obscured, while it still makes the fog cloud glow. And this glow could still provide illumination outside the fog cloud. "Completely Obscured" isn't the same as darkness. I don't see any rule that makes a fog cloud change the radius of bright and dim light sources.
                      – bvstuart
                      Dec 10 at 17:11












                    • @bvstuart If you can find text to support this interpretation, it would be better to post this as its own answer to this question.
                      – Xirema
                      Dec 10 at 17:12










                    • With a strong flashlight directed at your face you can't see a flashlight, but you do see light. On the other hand, spells only do what they say they do, and fog does not say it blocks light, only obscures thingd. Thus, your answer is valid literal answer to the title of the question, but not the spirit of it or three bullets at the end of it.
                      – Mołot
                      Dec 11 at 15:05














                    3












                    3








                    3






                    The Light Source is completely obscured



                    In the Player's Handbook, in Chapter 8: Adventuring, under Environment section, the paragraph on Vision and Light reads as follows, with respect to "Heavy Obscurement":




                    A heavily obscured area—such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage—blocks vision entirely. A creature in a heavily obscured area effectively suffers from the blinded condition (see the appendix). A heavily obscured area doesn't blind you, but you are effectively blinded when you try to see something obscured by it.




                    Since the Light source is inside the Fog Cloud, and the Fog Cloud specifically dictates that it generates a "Heavily Obscured" area, it would not be possible to see the Light source—or anything else—inside the Fog Cloud without some kind of ability to see through the Fog Cloud itself.






                    share|improve this answer














                    The Light Source is completely obscured



                    In the Player's Handbook, in Chapter 8: Adventuring, under Environment section, the paragraph on Vision and Light reads as follows, with respect to "Heavy Obscurement":




                    A heavily obscured area—such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage—blocks vision entirely. A creature in a heavily obscured area effectively suffers from the blinded condition (see the appendix). A heavily obscured area doesn't blind you, but you are effectively blinded when you try to see something obscured by it.




                    Since the Light source is inside the Fog Cloud, and the Fog Cloud specifically dictates that it generates a "Heavily Obscured" area, it would not be possible to see the Light source—or anything else—inside the Fog Cloud without some kind of ability to see through the Fog Cloud itself.







                    share|improve this answer














                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer








                    edited Dec 10 at 17:48

























                    answered Dec 10 at 16:17









                    Xirema

                    15.4k24593




                    15.4k24593












                    • It's possible that the light source could be completely obscured, while it still makes the fog cloud glow. And this glow could still provide illumination outside the fog cloud. "Completely Obscured" isn't the same as darkness. I don't see any rule that makes a fog cloud change the radius of bright and dim light sources.
                      – bvstuart
                      Dec 10 at 17:11












                    • @bvstuart If you can find text to support this interpretation, it would be better to post this as its own answer to this question.
                      – Xirema
                      Dec 10 at 17:12










                    • With a strong flashlight directed at your face you can't see a flashlight, but you do see light. On the other hand, spells only do what they say they do, and fog does not say it blocks light, only obscures thingd. Thus, your answer is valid literal answer to the title of the question, but not the spirit of it or three bullets at the end of it.
                      – Mołot
                      Dec 11 at 15:05


















                    • It's possible that the light source could be completely obscured, while it still makes the fog cloud glow. And this glow could still provide illumination outside the fog cloud. "Completely Obscured" isn't the same as darkness. I don't see any rule that makes a fog cloud change the radius of bright and dim light sources.
                      – bvstuart
                      Dec 10 at 17:11












                    • @bvstuart If you can find text to support this interpretation, it would be better to post this as its own answer to this question.
                      – Xirema
                      Dec 10 at 17:12










                    • With a strong flashlight directed at your face you can't see a flashlight, but you do see light. On the other hand, spells only do what they say they do, and fog does not say it blocks light, only obscures thingd. Thus, your answer is valid literal answer to the title of the question, but not the spirit of it or three bullets at the end of it.
                      – Mołot
                      Dec 11 at 15:05
















                    It's possible that the light source could be completely obscured, while it still makes the fog cloud glow. And this glow could still provide illumination outside the fog cloud. "Completely Obscured" isn't the same as darkness. I don't see any rule that makes a fog cloud change the radius of bright and dim light sources.
                    – bvstuart
                    Dec 10 at 17:11






                    It's possible that the light source could be completely obscured, while it still makes the fog cloud glow. And this glow could still provide illumination outside the fog cloud. "Completely Obscured" isn't the same as darkness. I don't see any rule that makes a fog cloud change the radius of bright and dim light sources.
                    – bvstuart
                    Dec 10 at 17:11














                    @bvstuart If you can find text to support this interpretation, it would be better to post this as its own answer to this question.
                    – Xirema
                    Dec 10 at 17:12




                    @bvstuart If you can find text to support this interpretation, it would be better to post this as its own answer to this question.
                    – Xirema
                    Dec 10 at 17:12












                    With a strong flashlight directed at your face you can't see a flashlight, but you do see light. On the other hand, spells only do what they say they do, and fog does not say it blocks light, only obscures thingd. Thus, your answer is valid literal answer to the title of the question, but not the spirit of it or three bullets at the end of it.
                    – Mołot
                    Dec 11 at 15:05




                    With a strong flashlight directed at your face you can't see a flashlight, but you do see light. On the other hand, spells only do what they say they do, and fog does not say it blocks light, only obscures thingd. Thus, your answer is valid literal answer to the title of the question, but not the spirit of it or three bullets at the end of it.
                    – Mołot
                    Dec 11 at 15:05


















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