How can the younger one reach Bar Mitzvah age first? [closed]











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A Bar Mitzvah is a ceremony which takes place on the 13th year of a Jewish male’s life (to the day).



How could it exist that [of two Jewish boys] Jim would be born on the first day of the month and John on the last (of that same month and year), yet 13 years later John reaches the age of Bar Mitzvah before Jim?





Hint related to final answer:




https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Mathematics_of_the_Jewish_Calendar/Anniversaries











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closed as too broad by gabbo1092, Excited Raichu, JonMark Perry, rhsquared, El-Guest Nov 29 at 22:32


Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer. Avoid asking multiple distinct questions at once. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.



















    up vote
    6
    down vote

    favorite












    A Bar Mitzvah is a ceremony which takes place on the 13th year of a Jewish male’s life (to the day).



    How could it exist that [of two Jewish boys] Jim would be born on the first day of the month and John on the last (of that same month and year), yet 13 years later John reaches the age of Bar Mitzvah before Jim?





    Hint related to final answer:




    https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Mathematics_of_the_Jewish_Calendar/Anniversaries











    share|improve this question















    closed as too broad by gabbo1092, Excited Raichu, JonMark Perry, rhsquared, El-Guest Nov 29 at 22:32


    Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer. Avoid asking multiple distinct questions at once. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.

















      up vote
      6
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      6
      down vote

      favorite











      A Bar Mitzvah is a ceremony which takes place on the 13th year of a Jewish male’s life (to the day).



      How could it exist that [of two Jewish boys] Jim would be born on the first day of the month and John on the last (of that same month and year), yet 13 years later John reaches the age of Bar Mitzvah before Jim?





      Hint related to final answer:




      https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Mathematics_of_the_Jewish_Calendar/Anniversaries











      share|improve this question















      A Bar Mitzvah is a ceremony which takes place on the 13th year of a Jewish male’s life (to the day).



      How could it exist that [of two Jewish boys] Jim would be born on the first day of the month and John on the last (of that same month and year), yet 13 years later John reaches the age of Bar Mitzvah before Jim?





      Hint related to final answer:




      https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Mathematics_of_the_Jewish_Calendar/Anniversaries








      logical-deduction knowledge






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited Nov 29 at 14:08

























      asked Nov 29 at 13:13









      Dr. Shmuel

      1336




      1336




      closed as too broad by gabbo1092, Excited Raichu, JonMark Perry, rhsquared, El-Guest Nov 29 at 22:32


      Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer. Avoid asking multiple distinct questions at once. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.






      closed as too broad by gabbo1092, Excited Raichu, JonMark Perry, rhsquared, El-Guest Nov 29 at 22:32


      Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer. Avoid asking multiple distinct questions at once. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
























          5 Answers
          5






          active

          oldest

          votes

















          up vote
          10
          down vote



          accepted










          the giveaway is that the boys are




          Jewish, meaning they follow the Jewish calendar. There is also an unique concept of Rosh Chodesh




          How?




          Credits to full description here: http://download.yutorah.org/2013/1053/Purim_To_Go_-_5771_Rabbi_Willig.pdf

          But taking an important extract out of it :

          Here too, since Adar has only 29 days, he becomes a bar mitzvah on the 1st day of Nissan.
          However, the Binyan Zion (158) rules that he becomes a bar mitzvah on the first day of Rosh Chodesh Adar, which is the 30th day of Shevat, since he was born on the first day of Rosh Chodesh Adar. This novel view, which makes him a bar mitzvah over a month earlier, is based on an unproven thesis that the status of Rosh Chodesh can determine a birth day.







          share|improve this answer




























            up vote
            9
            down vote














            John was born on the last day of, say, February, while Jim was born on (for example) March 1. The exact months aren't specified, so John could be born on the last day of a previous month.




            Alternatively (with the edit):




            Jim isn't Jewish.




            Also possible (with the edit):




            Jim is a girl, and celebrates her bat mitzvah, not bar mitzvah.




            Note: There was another edit, now ALL my solutions are invalid. At the time of posting they were valid, though.



            Now possible with new edit:




            Jim dies before he turns 13.







            share|improve this answer























            • +1 A for effort
              – Dr. Shmuel
              Nov 29 at 13:48










            • And FWIW the key difference other than genders for bar/bat mitzvah is that the girls typically do it at age 12, boys at 13.
              – ivanivan
              Nov 29 at 18:04






            • 1




              @ivanivan I know, it's still earlier though.
              – Excited Raichu
              Nov 29 at 18:05






            • 2




              Yes, but I added the comment to clarify for others who may be wondering what the heck the boy/girl thing makes different...
              – ivanivan
              Nov 29 at 18:06


















            up vote
            5
            down vote













            Might be wrong but:




            It doesn't say they were born in the same year, just same month. So John was born at the end of the month one year and Jim was born at the beginning of the month a year later. Thus when 13 years from when John was born he reaches Bar Mitzvah age and not Jim







            share|improve this answer




























              up vote
              5
              down vote













              Not familiar at all with the customs, but




              Maybe John was born on a leap day (29 February, or maybe an equivalent in the Hebrew calendar), and it's customary to move the Bar Mitzvah to an earlier date in case the exact date doesn't exist that year?







              share|improve this answer

















              • 2




                The Hebrew calendar not only has two months that are sometimes a day longer than otherwise (to avoid Yom Kippur falling on Friday or Sunday, or Hoshana Rabbah on Saturday); it also inserts an entire leap month (Adar I, preceding Adar II, which in common years is simply called "Adar") in 7 of every 19 years. And these peculiarities are related to the odd interpretation of the Bar Mitzvah age.
                – Monty Harder
                Nov 29 at 17:05


















              up vote
              3
              down vote













              Because:




              Jim gets cryogenically frozen and loses a month of life experience and growth. Suddenly John is older!







              share|improve this answer























              • Not sure why you were downvoted. I also would have upvoted relativistic velocities causing a difference in aging.
                – user1717828
                Nov 29 at 21:38


















              5 Answers
              5






              active

              oldest

              votes








              5 Answers
              5






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes








              up vote
              10
              down vote



              accepted










              the giveaway is that the boys are




              Jewish, meaning they follow the Jewish calendar. There is also an unique concept of Rosh Chodesh




              How?




              Credits to full description here: http://download.yutorah.org/2013/1053/Purim_To_Go_-_5771_Rabbi_Willig.pdf

              But taking an important extract out of it :

              Here too, since Adar has only 29 days, he becomes a bar mitzvah on the 1st day of Nissan.
              However, the Binyan Zion (158) rules that he becomes a bar mitzvah on the first day of Rosh Chodesh Adar, which is the 30th day of Shevat, since he was born on the first day of Rosh Chodesh Adar. This novel view, which makes him a bar mitzvah over a month earlier, is based on an unproven thesis that the status of Rosh Chodesh can determine a birth day.







              share|improve this answer

























                up vote
                10
                down vote



                accepted










                the giveaway is that the boys are




                Jewish, meaning they follow the Jewish calendar. There is also an unique concept of Rosh Chodesh




                How?




                Credits to full description here: http://download.yutorah.org/2013/1053/Purim_To_Go_-_5771_Rabbi_Willig.pdf

                But taking an important extract out of it :

                Here too, since Adar has only 29 days, he becomes a bar mitzvah on the 1st day of Nissan.
                However, the Binyan Zion (158) rules that he becomes a bar mitzvah on the first day of Rosh Chodesh Adar, which is the 30th day of Shevat, since he was born on the first day of Rosh Chodesh Adar. This novel view, which makes him a bar mitzvah over a month earlier, is based on an unproven thesis that the status of Rosh Chodesh can determine a birth day.







                share|improve this answer























                  up vote
                  10
                  down vote



                  accepted







                  up vote
                  10
                  down vote



                  accepted






                  the giveaway is that the boys are




                  Jewish, meaning they follow the Jewish calendar. There is also an unique concept of Rosh Chodesh




                  How?




                  Credits to full description here: http://download.yutorah.org/2013/1053/Purim_To_Go_-_5771_Rabbi_Willig.pdf

                  But taking an important extract out of it :

                  Here too, since Adar has only 29 days, he becomes a bar mitzvah on the 1st day of Nissan.
                  However, the Binyan Zion (158) rules that he becomes a bar mitzvah on the first day of Rosh Chodesh Adar, which is the 30th day of Shevat, since he was born on the first day of Rosh Chodesh Adar. This novel view, which makes him a bar mitzvah over a month earlier, is based on an unproven thesis that the status of Rosh Chodesh can determine a birth day.







                  share|improve this answer












                  the giveaway is that the boys are




                  Jewish, meaning they follow the Jewish calendar. There is also an unique concept of Rosh Chodesh




                  How?




                  Credits to full description here: http://download.yutorah.org/2013/1053/Purim_To_Go_-_5771_Rabbi_Willig.pdf

                  But taking an important extract out of it :

                  Here too, since Adar has only 29 days, he becomes a bar mitzvah on the 1st day of Nissan.
                  However, the Binyan Zion (158) rules that he becomes a bar mitzvah on the first day of Rosh Chodesh Adar, which is the 30th day of Shevat, since he was born on the first day of Rosh Chodesh Adar. This novel view, which makes him a bar mitzvah over a month earlier, is based on an unproven thesis that the status of Rosh Chodesh can determine a birth day.








                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered Nov 29 at 13:56









                  Kryesec

                  66310




                  66310






















                      up vote
                      9
                      down vote














                      John was born on the last day of, say, February, while Jim was born on (for example) March 1. The exact months aren't specified, so John could be born on the last day of a previous month.




                      Alternatively (with the edit):




                      Jim isn't Jewish.




                      Also possible (with the edit):




                      Jim is a girl, and celebrates her bat mitzvah, not bar mitzvah.




                      Note: There was another edit, now ALL my solutions are invalid. At the time of posting they were valid, though.



                      Now possible with new edit:




                      Jim dies before he turns 13.







                      share|improve this answer























                      • +1 A for effort
                        – Dr. Shmuel
                        Nov 29 at 13:48










                      • And FWIW the key difference other than genders for bar/bat mitzvah is that the girls typically do it at age 12, boys at 13.
                        – ivanivan
                        Nov 29 at 18:04






                      • 1




                        @ivanivan I know, it's still earlier though.
                        – Excited Raichu
                        Nov 29 at 18:05






                      • 2




                        Yes, but I added the comment to clarify for others who may be wondering what the heck the boy/girl thing makes different...
                        – ivanivan
                        Nov 29 at 18:06















                      up vote
                      9
                      down vote














                      John was born on the last day of, say, February, while Jim was born on (for example) March 1. The exact months aren't specified, so John could be born on the last day of a previous month.




                      Alternatively (with the edit):




                      Jim isn't Jewish.




                      Also possible (with the edit):




                      Jim is a girl, and celebrates her bat mitzvah, not bar mitzvah.




                      Note: There was another edit, now ALL my solutions are invalid. At the time of posting they were valid, though.



                      Now possible with new edit:




                      Jim dies before he turns 13.







                      share|improve this answer























                      • +1 A for effort
                        – Dr. Shmuel
                        Nov 29 at 13:48










                      • And FWIW the key difference other than genders for bar/bat mitzvah is that the girls typically do it at age 12, boys at 13.
                        – ivanivan
                        Nov 29 at 18:04






                      • 1




                        @ivanivan I know, it's still earlier though.
                        – Excited Raichu
                        Nov 29 at 18:05






                      • 2




                        Yes, but I added the comment to clarify for others who may be wondering what the heck the boy/girl thing makes different...
                        – ivanivan
                        Nov 29 at 18:06













                      up vote
                      9
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      9
                      down vote










                      John was born on the last day of, say, February, while Jim was born on (for example) March 1. The exact months aren't specified, so John could be born on the last day of a previous month.




                      Alternatively (with the edit):




                      Jim isn't Jewish.




                      Also possible (with the edit):




                      Jim is a girl, and celebrates her bat mitzvah, not bar mitzvah.




                      Note: There was another edit, now ALL my solutions are invalid. At the time of posting they were valid, though.



                      Now possible with new edit:




                      Jim dies before he turns 13.







                      share|improve this answer















                      John was born on the last day of, say, February, while Jim was born on (for example) March 1. The exact months aren't specified, so John could be born on the last day of a previous month.




                      Alternatively (with the edit):




                      Jim isn't Jewish.




                      Also possible (with the edit):




                      Jim is a girl, and celebrates her bat mitzvah, not bar mitzvah.




                      Note: There was another edit, now ALL my solutions are invalid. At the time of posting they were valid, though.



                      Now possible with new edit:




                      Jim dies before he turns 13.








                      share|improve this answer














                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer








                      edited Nov 29 at 13:35

























                      answered Nov 29 at 13:18









                      Excited Raichu

                      5,097757




                      5,097757












                      • +1 A for effort
                        – Dr. Shmuel
                        Nov 29 at 13:48










                      • And FWIW the key difference other than genders for bar/bat mitzvah is that the girls typically do it at age 12, boys at 13.
                        – ivanivan
                        Nov 29 at 18:04






                      • 1




                        @ivanivan I know, it's still earlier though.
                        – Excited Raichu
                        Nov 29 at 18:05






                      • 2




                        Yes, but I added the comment to clarify for others who may be wondering what the heck the boy/girl thing makes different...
                        – ivanivan
                        Nov 29 at 18:06


















                      • +1 A for effort
                        – Dr. Shmuel
                        Nov 29 at 13:48










                      • And FWIW the key difference other than genders for bar/bat mitzvah is that the girls typically do it at age 12, boys at 13.
                        – ivanivan
                        Nov 29 at 18:04






                      • 1




                        @ivanivan I know, it's still earlier though.
                        – Excited Raichu
                        Nov 29 at 18:05






                      • 2




                        Yes, but I added the comment to clarify for others who may be wondering what the heck the boy/girl thing makes different...
                        – ivanivan
                        Nov 29 at 18:06
















                      +1 A for effort
                      – Dr. Shmuel
                      Nov 29 at 13:48




                      +1 A for effort
                      – Dr. Shmuel
                      Nov 29 at 13:48












                      And FWIW the key difference other than genders for bar/bat mitzvah is that the girls typically do it at age 12, boys at 13.
                      – ivanivan
                      Nov 29 at 18:04




                      And FWIW the key difference other than genders for bar/bat mitzvah is that the girls typically do it at age 12, boys at 13.
                      – ivanivan
                      Nov 29 at 18:04




                      1




                      1




                      @ivanivan I know, it's still earlier though.
                      – Excited Raichu
                      Nov 29 at 18:05




                      @ivanivan I know, it's still earlier though.
                      – Excited Raichu
                      Nov 29 at 18:05




                      2




                      2




                      Yes, but I added the comment to clarify for others who may be wondering what the heck the boy/girl thing makes different...
                      – ivanivan
                      Nov 29 at 18:06




                      Yes, but I added the comment to clarify for others who may be wondering what the heck the boy/girl thing makes different...
                      – ivanivan
                      Nov 29 at 18:06










                      up vote
                      5
                      down vote













                      Might be wrong but:




                      It doesn't say they were born in the same year, just same month. So John was born at the end of the month one year and Jim was born at the beginning of the month a year later. Thus when 13 years from when John was born he reaches Bar Mitzvah age and not Jim







                      share|improve this answer

























                        up vote
                        5
                        down vote













                        Might be wrong but:




                        It doesn't say they were born in the same year, just same month. So John was born at the end of the month one year and Jim was born at the beginning of the month a year later. Thus when 13 years from when John was born he reaches Bar Mitzvah age and not Jim







                        share|improve this answer























                          up vote
                          5
                          down vote










                          up vote
                          5
                          down vote









                          Might be wrong but:




                          It doesn't say they were born in the same year, just same month. So John was born at the end of the month one year and Jim was born at the beginning of the month a year later. Thus when 13 years from when John was born he reaches Bar Mitzvah age and not Jim







                          share|improve this answer












                          Might be wrong but:




                          It doesn't say they were born in the same year, just same month. So John was born at the end of the month one year and Jim was born at the beginning of the month a year later. Thus when 13 years from when John was born he reaches Bar Mitzvah age and not Jim








                          share|improve this answer












                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer










                          answered Nov 29 at 13:30









                          gabbo1092

                          4,682738




                          4,682738






















                              up vote
                              5
                              down vote













                              Not familiar at all with the customs, but




                              Maybe John was born on a leap day (29 February, or maybe an equivalent in the Hebrew calendar), and it's customary to move the Bar Mitzvah to an earlier date in case the exact date doesn't exist that year?







                              share|improve this answer

















                              • 2




                                The Hebrew calendar not only has two months that are sometimes a day longer than otherwise (to avoid Yom Kippur falling on Friday or Sunday, or Hoshana Rabbah on Saturday); it also inserts an entire leap month (Adar I, preceding Adar II, which in common years is simply called "Adar") in 7 of every 19 years. And these peculiarities are related to the odd interpretation of the Bar Mitzvah age.
                                – Monty Harder
                                Nov 29 at 17:05















                              up vote
                              5
                              down vote













                              Not familiar at all with the customs, but




                              Maybe John was born on a leap day (29 February, or maybe an equivalent in the Hebrew calendar), and it's customary to move the Bar Mitzvah to an earlier date in case the exact date doesn't exist that year?







                              share|improve this answer

















                              • 2




                                The Hebrew calendar not only has two months that are sometimes a day longer than otherwise (to avoid Yom Kippur falling on Friday or Sunday, or Hoshana Rabbah on Saturday); it also inserts an entire leap month (Adar I, preceding Adar II, which in common years is simply called "Adar") in 7 of every 19 years. And these peculiarities are related to the odd interpretation of the Bar Mitzvah age.
                                – Monty Harder
                                Nov 29 at 17:05













                              up vote
                              5
                              down vote










                              up vote
                              5
                              down vote









                              Not familiar at all with the customs, but




                              Maybe John was born on a leap day (29 February, or maybe an equivalent in the Hebrew calendar), and it's customary to move the Bar Mitzvah to an earlier date in case the exact date doesn't exist that year?







                              share|improve this answer












                              Not familiar at all with the customs, but




                              Maybe John was born on a leap day (29 February, or maybe an equivalent in the Hebrew calendar), and it's customary to move the Bar Mitzvah to an earlier date in case the exact date doesn't exist that year?








                              share|improve this answer












                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer










                              answered Nov 29 at 13:33









                              jafe

                              15.2k37150




                              15.2k37150








                              • 2




                                The Hebrew calendar not only has two months that are sometimes a day longer than otherwise (to avoid Yom Kippur falling on Friday or Sunday, or Hoshana Rabbah on Saturday); it also inserts an entire leap month (Adar I, preceding Adar II, which in common years is simply called "Adar") in 7 of every 19 years. And these peculiarities are related to the odd interpretation of the Bar Mitzvah age.
                                – Monty Harder
                                Nov 29 at 17:05














                              • 2




                                The Hebrew calendar not only has two months that are sometimes a day longer than otherwise (to avoid Yom Kippur falling on Friday or Sunday, or Hoshana Rabbah on Saturday); it also inserts an entire leap month (Adar I, preceding Adar II, which in common years is simply called "Adar") in 7 of every 19 years. And these peculiarities are related to the odd interpretation of the Bar Mitzvah age.
                                – Monty Harder
                                Nov 29 at 17:05








                              2




                              2




                              The Hebrew calendar not only has two months that are sometimes a day longer than otherwise (to avoid Yom Kippur falling on Friday or Sunday, or Hoshana Rabbah on Saturday); it also inserts an entire leap month (Adar I, preceding Adar II, which in common years is simply called "Adar") in 7 of every 19 years. And these peculiarities are related to the odd interpretation of the Bar Mitzvah age.
                              – Monty Harder
                              Nov 29 at 17:05




                              The Hebrew calendar not only has two months that are sometimes a day longer than otherwise (to avoid Yom Kippur falling on Friday or Sunday, or Hoshana Rabbah on Saturday); it also inserts an entire leap month (Adar I, preceding Adar II, which in common years is simply called "Adar") in 7 of every 19 years. And these peculiarities are related to the odd interpretation of the Bar Mitzvah age.
                              – Monty Harder
                              Nov 29 at 17:05










                              up vote
                              3
                              down vote













                              Because:




                              Jim gets cryogenically frozen and loses a month of life experience and growth. Suddenly John is older!







                              share|improve this answer























                              • Not sure why you were downvoted. I also would have upvoted relativistic velocities causing a difference in aging.
                                – user1717828
                                Nov 29 at 21:38















                              up vote
                              3
                              down vote













                              Because:




                              Jim gets cryogenically frozen and loses a month of life experience and growth. Suddenly John is older!







                              share|improve this answer























                              • Not sure why you were downvoted. I also would have upvoted relativistic velocities causing a difference in aging.
                                – user1717828
                                Nov 29 at 21:38













                              up vote
                              3
                              down vote










                              up vote
                              3
                              down vote









                              Because:




                              Jim gets cryogenically frozen and loses a month of life experience and growth. Suddenly John is older!







                              share|improve this answer














                              Because:




                              Jim gets cryogenically frozen and loses a month of life experience and growth. Suddenly John is older!








                              share|improve this answer














                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer








                              edited Nov 29 at 20:47









                              gabbo1092

                              4,682738




                              4,682738










                              answered Nov 29 at 20:43









                              CMB

                              311




                              311












                              • Not sure why you were downvoted. I also would have upvoted relativistic velocities causing a difference in aging.
                                – user1717828
                                Nov 29 at 21:38


















                              • Not sure why you were downvoted. I also would have upvoted relativistic velocities causing a difference in aging.
                                – user1717828
                                Nov 29 at 21:38
















                              Not sure why you were downvoted. I also would have upvoted relativistic velocities causing a difference in aging.
                              – user1717828
                              Nov 29 at 21:38




                              Not sure why you were downvoted. I also would have upvoted relativistic velocities causing a difference in aging.
                              – user1717828
                              Nov 29 at 21:38



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