“Dobby the house-elf's former owners”











up vote
6
down vote

favorite
1













Edging along the second row to three still-empty seats right behind Mr. Weasley were none other than Dobby the house-elf's former owners: Lucius Malfoy; his son, Draco; and a woman Harry supposed must be Draco's mother.




From the context, I can figure out 'Dobby' is appositive to 'the house-elf', but I feel this use of apposition is a bit strange. If we remove "Lucius Malfoy; his son, Draco; and a woman Harry supposed must be Draco's mother" and change 'owners' to 'owner'(Edging along the second row to three still-empty seats right behind Mr. Weasley were none other than Dobby the house-elf's former owner.), I would probably think 'Dobby' refers to "the house-elf's former owner", instead of "the house-elf". So, I'm wondering if this is the norm that native speakers would take?










share|improve this question




























    up vote
    6
    down vote

    favorite
    1













    Edging along the second row to three still-empty seats right behind Mr. Weasley were none other than Dobby the house-elf's former owners: Lucius Malfoy; his son, Draco; and a woman Harry supposed must be Draco's mother.




    From the context, I can figure out 'Dobby' is appositive to 'the house-elf', but I feel this use of apposition is a bit strange. If we remove "Lucius Malfoy; his son, Draco; and a woman Harry supposed must be Draco's mother" and change 'owners' to 'owner'(Edging along the second row to three still-empty seats right behind Mr. Weasley were none other than Dobby the house-elf's former owner.), I would probably think 'Dobby' refers to "the house-elf's former owner", instead of "the house-elf". So, I'm wondering if this is the norm that native speakers would take?










    share|improve this question


























      up vote
      6
      down vote

      favorite
      1









      up vote
      6
      down vote

      favorite
      1






      1






      Edging along the second row to three still-empty seats right behind Mr. Weasley were none other than Dobby the house-elf's former owners: Lucius Malfoy; his son, Draco; and a woman Harry supposed must be Draco's mother.




      From the context, I can figure out 'Dobby' is appositive to 'the house-elf', but I feel this use of apposition is a bit strange. If we remove "Lucius Malfoy; his son, Draco; and a woman Harry supposed must be Draco's mother" and change 'owners' to 'owner'(Edging along the second row to three still-empty seats right behind Mr. Weasley were none other than Dobby the house-elf's former owner.), I would probably think 'Dobby' refers to "the house-elf's former owner", instead of "the house-elf". So, I'm wondering if this is the norm that native speakers would take?










      share|improve this question
















      Edging along the second row to three still-empty seats right behind Mr. Weasley were none other than Dobby the house-elf's former owners: Lucius Malfoy; his son, Draco; and a woman Harry supposed must be Draco's mother.




      From the context, I can figure out 'Dobby' is appositive to 'the house-elf', but I feel this use of apposition is a bit strange. If we remove "Lucius Malfoy; his son, Draco; and a woman Harry supposed must be Draco's mother" and change 'owners' to 'owner'(Edging along the second row to three still-empty seats right behind Mr. Weasley were none other than Dobby the house-elf's former owner.), I would probably think 'Dobby' refers to "the house-elf's former owner", instead of "the house-elf". So, I'm wondering if this is the norm that native speakers would take?







      appositives






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited Dec 7 at 13:32

























      asked Dec 7 at 13:26









      dan

      4,29722565




      4,29722565






















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes

















          up vote
          25
          down vote



          accepted










          It’s a “restrictive appositive,” which are subject to some important differences with respect to how you punctuate them. The reading you suggest would instead be the case if you had a non-restrictive appositive, but those are always set off with punctuation on either side (usually a pair of commas, but dashes and colons are not uncommon either). And you wouldn’t use a non-restrictive appositive on something in the possessive; there just isn’t a good place to put the ’s if you do (some construction with of would be a native speaker’s choice if they needed both the possessive and a non-restrictive appositive).



          Instead, Dobby the house-elf is being used as a name here, with the house-elf being a particular, common form of restrictive appositive, that is, an epithet:




          epithet noun



          ep·​i·​thet | ˈe-pə-ˌthet also -thət



          Definition of epithet




          1. a : a characterizing word or phrase accompanying or occurring in place of the name of a person or thing




          (epithet, Merriam-Webster Dictionary)



          So here we have Dobby, his name, plus the house-elf as an epithet, and grammatically the entire thing, Dobby the house-elf, is being used as a name. As it is a name, the possessive is clear here: ’s goes on to the end of the entire name, that is, Dobby the house-elf’s.



          Note that the house-elf is lower-cased. This indicates that the epithet is being used here, in this case, but it’s not like everyone goes around calling him Dobby the house-elf. When an epithet becomes very common, and how many people refer to someone, then it can become more properly part of their name, and get capitalized. Consider Eric the Red,1Charles the Great,2 or Vlad the Impaler.3




          1. Famous Viking explorer, who founded the first settlement in Greenland and whose son, Leif Ericson, was actually the first European to reach continental America. The Red likely refers to his hair color.


          2. Better known as Charlemagne, the first Holy Roman Emperor. The Great refers to his importance and the significance of his deeds.


          3. Prince Vlad III of Wallachia, also known as Vlad Dracula, after whom Bram Stoker named a vampire. The Impaler refers to his notorious penchant for impaling those he would have executed.





          In order to achieve the sense that Dobby is the house-elf’s owner, you would need a comma to break things up, to make it a non-restrictive appositive. Consider these variations:





          • Your proposal:




            Dobby the house-elf’s former owner




            Here Dobby the house-elf is a name, with the house-elf as an epithet, a restrictive appositive. It is unambiguous that Dobby is the house-elf who was formerly owned.





          • Dobby, the house-elf’s former owner,




            Now the house-elf’s former owner actually is a non-restrictive appositive, and it’s unambiguous that Dobby is the former owner of some house-elf previously discussed or otherwise indicated by context (which could not be Dobby himself, the house-elf here would have to be some other house-elf).





          • former owner of Dobby, the house-elf,




            Here we have another non-restrictive appositive, this time the house-elf. The meaning of this is the same as your original proposal, that is, Dobby is unambiguously the house-elf who was formerly owned. But we had to change the word order around and introduce of to get the possession to work, because there would be no way to add a ’s to Dobby, the house-elf, to achieve this meaning.




          Also, remember that anyone reading that sentence in the middle of the novel knows very well who Dobby is, and who the Malfoys are. You ask what native English speakers think of this usage of the appositive, but most native English speakers would probably think “what’s an ‘appositive’ again?” The terminology is an attempt to characterize the patterns and precedents English speakers recognize and use in their speech, but writing or speech isn’t right or wrong based on how well it matches those characterizations—it’s right or wrong based on how well it matches the patterns and precedents recognized by their audience (and it is rarely conscious recognition), and Rowling’s audience here is people who have been reading her novel and are familiar with these characters. If the audience gets it, but the terminology says it’s wrong, then it is the terminology that is off, failing to fully capturing the breadth and variety of the English language, not the speaker or author.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 1




            Almost-certain to go nowhere, but I am a bit bewildered on the downvote this received. If I have made any errors in my analysis or suggestions, I would certainly like to know what they are.
            – KRyan
            Dec 7 at 14:19






          • 1




            I'm surprised too. I thought you made a perfect answer! I learn a lot from it.
            – dan
            Dec 7 at 14:29








          • 1




            Those downvotes might come from your first sentence. "Dobby" and "the house-elf" are in apposition. It's non-restrictive appositives that are set off with commas. These epithet are examples of restrictive appositives. It's not much different from "my uncle Charlie", where "my uncle" and "Charlie" can each stand alone, but they're mutually restrictive when they stand together.
            – Gary Botnovcan
            Dec 7 at 14:49








          • 3




            Well, in plain English, "apposition" simply means a placement near {to something}. Restrictive or not, appositives share these common traits: They are separate noun phrases standing together. Each of the noun phrases refers to the same thing. If anything, restrictive appositives seem more deserving of the name, since they stand closer together, without any separation.
            – Gary Botnovcan
            Dec 7 at 15:27






          • 4




            In keeping with the season, another good example would be Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer.
            – Barmar
            Dec 7 at 17:02


















          up vote
          4
          down vote













          It looks like you're dividing the sentence slightly incorrectly. Segmented correctly, it looks something like this:




          Dobby the house-elf

          's former owners:

          Lucius Malfoy;

          his son, Draco;

          and a woman Harry supposed must be Draco's mother.




          So, "Dobby the house-elf" is being used like a name, all in one. Its not actually his name, but it's being used to remind us that Dobby is a house-elf.



          "Dobby the house-elf" has former owners, who are listed:




          1. Lucius Malfoy

          2. Draco, who is Lucius' son

          3. a woman, whom Harry supposes must be Draco's mother






          share|improve this answer






























            up vote
            3
            down vote













            A more compact version of KRyan's answer: distinguishing between "(Dobby the house-elf)'s former master" and "Dobby (the house-elf's former master)" is generally done by putting a comma between "Dobby" and "the" to indicate the latter. It would not be uncommon for someone with poor grammatical skills to omit the comma, and so the lack of comma cannot be universally considered to be conclusive as to the former being meant, but JK Rowling (or her editors) seem to have a decent grasp on grammar, and anyone keeping up with the story would know that the Malfoys are Dobby's former masters, so there is not much ambiguity. As KRyan says, the latter would probably be considered a nonrestrictive appositive, but most speakers would not be familiar with that terminology.



            We could, if we tried hard enough, contrive a situation where "the house-elf's former master" would be restrictive. For instance, if there were multiple characters named Dobby, and one of them was former master of a house-elf, we might specify that we were talking about that one by saying "Dobby the house-elf's former master". If we were worried about ambiguity, we might treat it as nonrestrictive and put in a comma, or set if off with hyphens: "Dobby the house-elf's-former-master", parentheses: "Dobby (the house-elf's former master)", or dashes: Dobby -- the house-elf's former master --".






            share|improve this answer





















              Your Answer








              StackExchange.ready(function() {
              var channelOptions = {
              tags: "".split(" "),
              id: "481"
              };
              initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

              StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
              // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
              if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
              StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
              createEditor();
              });
              }
              else {
              createEditor();
              }
              });

              function createEditor() {
              StackExchange.prepareEditor({
              heartbeatType: 'answer',
              autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
              convertImagesToLinks: false,
              noModals: true,
              showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
              reputationToPostImages: null,
              bindNavPrevention: true,
              postfix: "",
              imageUploader: {
              brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
              contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
              allowUrls: true
              },
              noCode: true, onDemand: true,
              discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
              ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
              });


              }
              });














              draft saved

              draft discarded


















              StackExchange.ready(
              function () {
              StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fell.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f187807%2fdobby-the-house-elfs-former-owners%23new-answer', 'question_page');
              }
              );

              Post as a guest















              Required, but never shown

























              3 Answers
              3






              active

              oldest

              votes








              3 Answers
              3






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes








              up vote
              25
              down vote



              accepted










              It’s a “restrictive appositive,” which are subject to some important differences with respect to how you punctuate them. The reading you suggest would instead be the case if you had a non-restrictive appositive, but those are always set off with punctuation on either side (usually a pair of commas, but dashes and colons are not uncommon either). And you wouldn’t use a non-restrictive appositive on something in the possessive; there just isn’t a good place to put the ’s if you do (some construction with of would be a native speaker’s choice if they needed both the possessive and a non-restrictive appositive).



              Instead, Dobby the house-elf is being used as a name here, with the house-elf being a particular, common form of restrictive appositive, that is, an epithet:




              epithet noun



              ep·​i·​thet | ˈe-pə-ˌthet also -thət



              Definition of epithet




              1. a : a characterizing word or phrase accompanying or occurring in place of the name of a person or thing




              (epithet, Merriam-Webster Dictionary)



              So here we have Dobby, his name, plus the house-elf as an epithet, and grammatically the entire thing, Dobby the house-elf, is being used as a name. As it is a name, the possessive is clear here: ’s goes on to the end of the entire name, that is, Dobby the house-elf’s.



              Note that the house-elf is lower-cased. This indicates that the epithet is being used here, in this case, but it’s not like everyone goes around calling him Dobby the house-elf. When an epithet becomes very common, and how many people refer to someone, then it can become more properly part of their name, and get capitalized. Consider Eric the Red,1Charles the Great,2 or Vlad the Impaler.3




              1. Famous Viking explorer, who founded the first settlement in Greenland and whose son, Leif Ericson, was actually the first European to reach continental America. The Red likely refers to his hair color.


              2. Better known as Charlemagne, the first Holy Roman Emperor. The Great refers to his importance and the significance of his deeds.


              3. Prince Vlad III of Wallachia, also known as Vlad Dracula, after whom Bram Stoker named a vampire. The Impaler refers to his notorious penchant for impaling those he would have executed.





              In order to achieve the sense that Dobby is the house-elf’s owner, you would need a comma to break things up, to make it a non-restrictive appositive. Consider these variations:





              • Your proposal:




                Dobby the house-elf’s former owner




                Here Dobby the house-elf is a name, with the house-elf as an epithet, a restrictive appositive. It is unambiguous that Dobby is the house-elf who was formerly owned.





              • Dobby, the house-elf’s former owner,




                Now the house-elf’s former owner actually is a non-restrictive appositive, and it’s unambiguous that Dobby is the former owner of some house-elf previously discussed or otherwise indicated by context (which could not be Dobby himself, the house-elf here would have to be some other house-elf).





              • former owner of Dobby, the house-elf,




                Here we have another non-restrictive appositive, this time the house-elf. The meaning of this is the same as your original proposal, that is, Dobby is unambiguously the house-elf who was formerly owned. But we had to change the word order around and introduce of to get the possession to work, because there would be no way to add a ’s to Dobby, the house-elf, to achieve this meaning.




              Also, remember that anyone reading that sentence in the middle of the novel knows very well who Dobby is, and who the Malfoys are. You ask what native English speakers think of this usage of the appositive, but most native English speakers would probably think “what’s an ‘appositive’ again?” The terminology is an attempt to characterize the patterns and precedents English speakers recognize and use in their speech, but writing or speech isn’t right or wrong based on how well it matches those characterizations—it’s right or wrong based on how well it matches the patterns and precedents recognized by their audience (and it is rarely conscious recognition), and Rowling’s audience here is people who have been reading her novel and are familiar with these characters. If the audience gets it, but the terminology says it’s wrong, then it is the terminology that is off, failing to fully capturing the breadth and variety of the English language, not the speaker or author.






              share|improve this answer



















              • 1




                Almost-certain to go nowhere, but I am a bit bewildered on the downvote this received. If I have made any errors in my analysis or suggestions, I would certainly like to know what they are.
                – KRyan
                Dec 7 at 14:19






              • 1




                I'm surprised too. I thought you made a perfect answer! I learn a lot from it.
                – dan
                Dec 7 at 14:29








              • 1




                Those downvotes might come from your first sentence. "Dobby" and "the house-elf" are in apposition. It's non-restrictive appositives that are set off with commas. These epithet are examples of restrictive appositives. It's not much different from "my uncle Charlie", where "my uncle" and "Charlie" can each stand alone, but they're mutually restrictive when they stand together.
                – Gary Botnovcan
                Dec 7 at 14:49








              • 3




                Well, in plain English, "apposition" simply means a placement near {to something}. Restrictive or not, appositives share these common traits: They are separate noun phrases standing together. Each of the noun phrases refers to the same thing. If anything, restrictive appositives seem more deserving of the name, since they stand closer together, without any separation.
                – Gary Botnovcan
                Dec 7 at 15:27






              • 4




                In keeping with the season, another good example would be Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer.
                – Barmar
                Dec 7 at 17:02















              up vote
              25
              down vote



              accepted










              It’s a “restrictive appositive,” which are subject to some important differences with respect to how you punctuate them. The reading you suggest would instead be the case if you had a non-restrictive appositive, but those are always set off with punctuation on either side (usually a pair of commas, but dashes and colons are not uncommon either). And you wouldn’t use a non-restrictive appositive on something in the possessive; there just isn’t a good place to put the ’s if you do (some construction with of would be a native speaker’s choice if they needed both the possessive and a non-restrictive appositive).



              Instead, Dobby the house-elf is being used as a name here, with the house-elf being a particular, common form of restrictive appositive, that is, an epithet:




              epithet noun



              ep·​i·​thet | ˈe-pə-ˌthet also -thət



              Definition of epithet




              1. a : a characterizing word or phrase accompanying or occurring in place of the name of a person or thing




              (epithet, Merriam-Webster Dictionary)



              So here we have Dobby, his name, plus the house-elf as an epithet, and grammatically the entire thing, Dobby the house-elf, is being used as a name. As it is a name, the possessive is clear here: ’s goes on to the end of the entire name, that is, Dobby the house-elf’s.



              Note that the house-elf is lower-cased. This indicates that the epithet is being used here, in this case, but it’s not like everyone goes around calling him Dobby the house-elf. When an epithet becomes very common, and how many people refer to someone, then it can become more properly part of their name, and get capitalized. Consider Eric the Red,1Charles the Great,2 or Vlad the Impaler.3




              1. Famous Viking explorer, who founded the first settlement in Greenland and whose son, Leif Ericson, was actually the first European to reach continental America. The Red likely refers to his hair color.


              2. Better known as Charlemagne, the first Holy Roman Emperor. The Great refers to his importance and the significance of his deeds.


              3. Prince Vlad III of Wallachia, also known as Vlad Dracula, after whom Bram Stoker named a vampire. The Impaler refers to his notorious penchant for impaling those he would have executed.





              In order to achieve the sense that Dobby is the house-elf’s owner, you would need a comma to break things up, to make it a non-restrictive appositive. Consider these variations:





              • Your proposal:




                Dobby the house-elf’s former owner




                Here Dobby the house-elf is a name, with the house-elf as an epithet, a restrictive appositive. It is unambiguous that Dobby is the house-elf who was formerly owned.





              • Dobby, the house-elf’s former owner,




                Now the house-elf’s former owner actually is a non-restrictive appositive, and it’s unambiguous that Dobby is the former owner of some house-elf previously discussed or otherwise indicated by context (which could not be Dobby himself, the house-elf here would have to be some other house-elf).





              • former owner of Dobby, the house-elf,




                Here we have another non-restrictive appositive, this time the house-elf. The meaning of this is the same as your original proposal, that is, Dobby is unambiguously the house-elf who was formerly owned. But we had to change the word order around and introduce of to get the possession to work, because there would be no way to add a ’s to Dobby, the house-elf, to achieve this meaning.




              Also, remember that anyone reading that sentence in the middle of the novel knows very well who Dobby is, and who the Malfoys are. You ask what native English speakers think of this usage of the appositive, but most native English speakers would probably think “what’s an ‘appositive’ again?” The terminology is an attempt to characterize the patterns and precedents English speakers recognize and use in their speech, but writing or speech isn’t right or wrong based on how well it matches those characterizations—it’s right or wrong based on how well it matches the patterns and precedents recognized by their audience (and it is rarely conscious recognition), and Rowling’s audience here is people who have been reading her novel and are familiar with these characters. If the audience gets it, but the terminology says it’s wrong, then it is the terminology that is off, failing to fully capturing the breadth and variety of the English language, not the speaker or author.






              share|improve this answer



















              • 1




                Almost-certain to go nowhere, but I am a bit bewildered on the downvote this received. If I have made any errors in my analysis or suggestions, I would certainly like to know what they are.
                – KRyan
                Dec 7 at 14:19






              • 1




                I'm surprised too. I thought you made a perfect answer! I learn a lot from it.
                – dan
                Dec 7 at 14:29








              • 1




                Those downvotes might come from your first sentence. "Dobby" and "the house-elf" are in apposition. It's non-restrictive appositives that are set off with commas. These epithet are examples of restrictive appositives. It's not much different from "my uncle Charlie", where "my uncle" and "Charlie" can each stand alone, but they're mutually restrictive when they stand together.
                – Gary Botnovcan
                Dec 7 at 14:49








              • 3




                Well, in plain English, "apposition" simply means a placement near {to something}. Restrictive or not, appositives share these common traits: They are separate noun phrases standing together. Each of the noun phrases refers to the same thing. If anything, restrictive appositives seem more deserving of the name, since they stand closer together, without any separation.
                – Gary Botnovcan
                Dec 7 at 15:27






              • 4




                In keeping with the season, another good example would be Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer.
                – Barmar
                Dec 7 at 17:02













              up vote
              25
              down vote



              accepted







              up vote
              25
              down vote



              accepted






              It’s a “restrictive appositive,” which are subject to some important differences with respect to how you punctuate them. The reading you suggest would instead be the case if you had a non-restrictive appositive, but those are always set off with punctuation on either side (usually a pair of commas, but dashes and colons are not uncommon either). And you wouldn’t use a non-restrictive appositive on something in the possessive; there just isn’t a good place to put the ’s if you do (some construction with of would be a native speaker’s choice if they needed both the possessive and a non-restrictive appositive).



              Instead, Dobby the house-elf is being used as a name here, with the house-elf being a particular, common form of restrictive appositive, that is, an epithet:




              epithet noun



              ep·​i·​thet | ˈe-pə-ˌthet also -thət



              Definition of epithet




              1. a : a characterizing word or phrase accompanying or occurring in place of the name of a person or thing




              (epithet, Merriam-Webster Dictionary)



              So here we have Dobby, his name, plus the house-elf as an epithet, and grammatically the entire thing, Dobby the house-elf, is being used as a name. As it is a name, the possessive is clear here: ’s goes on to the end of the entire name, that is, Dobby the house-elf’s.



              Note that the house-elf is lower-cased. This indicates that the epithet is being used here, in this case, but it’s not like everyone goes around calling him Dobby the house-elf. When an epithet becomes very common, and how many people refer to someone, then it can become more properly part of their name, and get capitalized. Consider Eric the Red,1Charles the Great,2 or Vlad the Impaler.3




              1. Famous Viking explorer, who founded the first settlement in Greenland and whose son, Leif Ericson, was actually the first European to reach continental America. The Red likely refers to his hair color.


              2. Better known as Charlemagne, the first Holy Roman Emperor. The Great refers to his importance and the significance of his deeds.


              3. Prince Vlad III of Wallachia, also known as Vlad Dracula, after whom Bram Stoker named a vampire. The Impaler refers to his notorious penchant for impaling those he would have executed.





              In order to achieve the sense that Dobby is the house-elf’s owner, you would need a comma to break things up, to make it a non-restrictive appositive. Consider these variations:





              • Your proposal:




                Dobby the house-elf’s former owner




                Here Dobby the house-elf is a name, with the house-elf as an epithet, a restrictive appositive. It is unambiguous that Dobby is the house-elf who was formerly owned.





              • Dobby, the house-elf’s former owner,




                Now the house-elf’s former owner actually is a non-restrictive appositive, and it’s unambiguous that Dobby is the former owner of some house-elf previously discussed or otherwise indicated by context (which could not be Dobby himself, the house-elf here would have to be some other house-elf).





              • former owner of Dobby, the house-elf,




                Here we have another non-restrictive appositive, this time the house-elf. The meaning of this is the same as your original proposal, that is, Dobby is unambiguously the house-elf who was formerly owned. But we had to change the word order around and introduce of to get the possession to work, because there would be no way to add a ’s to Dobby, the house-elf, to achieve this meaning.




              Also, remember that anyone reading that sentence in the middle of the novel knows very well who Dobby is, and who the Malfoys are. You ask what native English speakers think of this usage of the appositive, but most native English speakers would probably think “what’s an ‘appositive’ again?” The terminology is an attempt to characterize the patterns and precedents English speakers recognize and use in their speech, but writing or speech isn’t right or wrong based on how well it matches those characterizations—it’s right or wrong based on how well it matches the patterns and precedents recognized by their audience (and it is rarely conscious recognition), and Rowling’s audience here is people who have been reading her novel and are familiar with these characters. If the audience gets it, but the terminology says it’s wrong, then it is the terminology that is off, failing to fully capturing the breadth and variety of the English language, not the speaker or author.






              share|improve this answer














              It’s a “restrictive appositive,” which are subject to some important differences with respect to how you punctuate them. The reading you suggest would instead be the case if you had a non-restrictive appositive, but those are always set off with punctuation on either side (usually a pair of commas, but dashes and colons are not uncommon either). And you wouldn’t use a non-restrictive appositive on something in the possessive; there just isn’t a good place to put the ’s if you do (some construction with of would be a native speaker’s choice if they needed both the possessive and a non-restrictive appositive).



              Instead, Dobby the house-elf is being used as a name here, with the house-elf being a particular, common form of restrictive appositive, that is, an epithet:




              epithet noun



              ep·​i·​thet | ˈe-pə-ˌthet also -thət



              Definition of epithet




              1. a : a characterizing word or phrase accompanying or occurring in place of the name of a person or thing




              (epithet, Merriam-Webster Dictionary)



              So here we have Dobby, his name, plus the house-elf as an epithet, and grammatically the entire thing, Dobby the house-elf, is being used as a name. As it is a name, the possessive is clear here: ’s goes on to the end of the entire name, that is, Dobby the house-elf’s.



              Note that the house-elf is lower-cased. This indicates that the epithet is being used here, in this case, but it’s not like everyone goes around calling him Dobby the house-elf. When an epithet becomes very common, and how many people refer to someone, then it can become more properly part of their name, and get capitalized. Consider Eric the Red,1Charles the Great,2 or Vlad the Impaler.3




              1. Famous Viking explorer, who founded the first settlement in Greenland and whose son, Leif Ericson, was actually the first European to reach continental America. The Red likely refers to his hair color.


              2. Better known as Charlemagne, the first Holy Roman Emperor. The Great refers to his importance and the significance of his deeds.


              3. Prince Vlad III of Wallachia, also known as Vlad Dracula, after whom Bram Stoker named a vampire. The Impaler refers to his notorious penchant for impaling those he would have executed.





              In order to achieve the sense that Dobby is the house-elf’s owner, you would need a comma to break things up, to make it a non-restrictive appositive. Consider these variations:





              • Your proposal:




                Dobby the house-elf’s former owner




                Here Dobby the house-elf is a name, with the house-elf as an epithet, a restrictive appositive. It is unambiguous that Dobby is the house-elf who was formerly owned.





              • Dobby, the house-elf’s former owner,




                Now the house-elf’s former owner actually is a non-restrictive appositive, and it’s unambiguous that Dobby is the former owner of some house-elf previously discussed or otherwise indicated by context (which could not be Dobby himself, the house-elf here would have to be some other house-elf).





              • former owner of Dobby, the house-elf,




                Here we have another non-restrictive appositive, this time the house-elf. The meaning of this is the same as your original proposal, that is, Dobby is unambiguously the house-elf who was formerly owned. But we had to change the word order around and introduce of to get the possession to work, because there would be no way to add a ’s to Dobby, the house-elf, to achieve this meaning.




              Also, remember that anyone reading that sentence in the middle of the novel knows very well who Dobby is, and who the Malfoys are. You ask what native English speakers think of this usage of the appositive, but most native English speakers would probably think “what’s an ‘appositive’ again?” The terminology is an attempt to characterize the patterns and precedents English speakers recognize and use in their speech, but writing or speech isn’t right or wrong based on how well it matches those characterizations—it’s right or wrong based on how well it matches the patterns and precedents recognized by their audience (and it is rarely conscious recognition), and Rowling’s audience here is people who have been reading her novel and are familiar with these characters. If the audience gets it, but the terminology says it’s wrong, then it is the terminology that is off, failing to fully capturing the breadth and variety of the English language, not the speaker or author.







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited Dec 7 at 15:15

























              answered Dec 7 at 13:46









              KRyan

              1,9671016




              1,9671016








              • 1




                Almost-certain to go nowhere, but I am a bit bewildered on the downvote this received. If I have made any errors in my analysis or suggestions, I would certainly like to know what they are.
                – KRyan
                Dec 7 at 14:19






              • 1




                I'm surprised too. I thought you made a perfect answer! I learn a lot from it.
                – dan
                Dec 7 at 14:29








              • 1




                Those downvotes might come from your first sentence. "Dobby" and "the house-elf" are in apposition. It's non-restrictive appositives that are set off with commas. These epithet are examples of restrictive appositives. It's not much different from "my uncle Charlie", where "my uncle" and "Charlie" can each stand alone, but they're mutually restrictive when they stand together.
                – Gary Botnovcan
                Dec 7 at 14:49








              • 3




                Well, in plain English, "apposition" simply means a placement near {to something}. Restrictive or not, appositives share these common traits: They are separate noun phrases standing together. Each of the noun phrases refers to the same thing. If anything, restrictive appositives seem more deserving of the name, since they stand closer together, without any separation.
                – Gary Botnovcan
                Dec 7 at 15:27






              • 4




                In keeping with the season, another good example would be Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer.
                – Barmar
                Dec 7 at 17:02














              • 1




                Almost-certain to go nowhere, but I am a bit bewildered on the downvote this received. If I have made any errors in my analysis or suggestions, I would certainly like to know what they are.
                – KRyan
                Dec 7 at 14:19






              • 1




                I'm surprised too. I thought you made a perfect answer! I learn a lot from it.
                – dan
                Dec 7 at 14:29








              • 1




                Those downvotes might come from your first sentence. "Dobby" and "the house-elf" are in apposition. It's non-restrictive appositives that are set off with commas. These epithet are examples of restrictive appositives. It's not much different from "my uncle Charlie", where "my uncle" and "Charlie" can each stand alone, but they're mutually restrictive when they stand together.
                – Gary Botnovcan
                Dec 7 at 14:49








              • 3




                Well, in plain English, "apposition" simply means a placement near {to something}. Restrictive or not, appositives share these common traits: They are separate noun phrases standing together. Each of the noun phrases refers to the same thing. If anything, restrictive appositives seem more deserving of the name, since they stand closer together, without any separation.
                – Gary Botnovcan
                Dec 7 at 15:27






              • 4




                In keeping with the season, another good example would be Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer.
                – Barmar
                Dec 7 at 17:02








              1




              1




              Almost-certain to go nowhere, but I am a bit bewildered on the downvote this received. If I have made any errors in my analysis or suggestions, I would certainly like to know what they are.
              – KRyan
              Dec 7 at 14:19




              Almost-certain to go nowhere, but I am a bit bewildered on the downvote this received. If I have made any errors in my analysis or suggestions, I would certainly like to know what they are.
              – KRyan
              Dec 7 at 14:19




              1




              1




              I'm surprised too. I thought you made a perfect answer! I learn a lot from it.
              – dan
              Dec 7 at 14:29






              I'm surprised too. I thought you made a perfect answer! I learn a lot from it.
              – dan
              Dec 7 at 14:29






              1




              1




              Those downvotes might come from your first sentence. "Dobby" and "the house-elf" are in apposition. It's non-restrictive appositives that are set off with commas. These epithet are examples of restrictive appositives. It's not much different from "my uncle Charlie", where "my uncle" and "Charlie" can each stand alone, but they're mutually restrictive when they stand together.
              – Gary Botnovcan
              Dec 7 at 14:49






              Those downvotes might come from your first sentence. "Dobby" and "the house-elf" are in apposition. It's non-restrictive appositives that are set off with commas. These epithet are examples of restrictive appositives. It's not much different from "my uncle Charlie", where "my uncle" and "Charlie" can each stand alone, but they're mutually restrictive when they stand together.
              – Gary Botnovcan
              Dec 7 at 14:49






              3




              3




              Well, in plain English, "apposition" simply means a placement near {to something}. Restrictive or not, appositives share these common traits: They are separate noun phrases standing together. Each of the noun phrases refers to the same thing. If anything, restrictive appositives seem more deserving of the name, since they stand closer together, without any separation.
              – Gary Botnovcan
              Dec 7 at 15:27




              Well, in plain English, "apposition" simply means a placement near {to something}. Restrictive or not, appositives share these common traits: They are separate noun phrases standing together. Each of the noun phrases refers to the same thing. If anything, restrictive appositives seem more deserving of the name, since they stand closer together, without any separation.
              – Gary Botnovcan
              Dec 7 at 15:27




              4




              4




              In keeping with the season, another good example would be Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer.
              – Barmar
              Dec 7 at 17:02




              In keeping with the season, another good example would be Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer.
              – Barmar
              Dec 7 at 17:02












              up vote
              4
              down vote













              It looks like you're dividing the sentence slightly incorrectly. Segmented correctly, it looks something like this:




              Dobby the house-elf

              's former owners:

              Lucius Malfoy;

              his son, Draco;

              and a woman Harry supposed must be Draco's mother.




              So, "Dobby the house-elf" is being used like a name, all in one. Its not actually his name, but it's being used to remind us that Dobby is a house-elf.



              "Dobby the house-elf" has former owners, who are listed:




              1. Lucius Malfoy

              2. Draco, who is Lucius' son

              3. a woman, whom Harry supposes must be Draco's mother






              share|improve this answer



























                up vote
                4
                down vote













                It looks like you're dividing the sentence slightly incorrectly. Segmented correctly, it looks something like this:




                Dobby the house-elf

                's former owners:

                Lucius Malfoy;

                his son, Draco;

                and a woman Harry supposed must be Draco's mother.




                So, "Dobby the house-elf" is being used like a name, all in one. Its not actually his name, but it's being used to remind us that Dobby is a house-elf.



                "Dobby the house-elf" has former owners, who are listed:




                1. Lucius Malfoy

                2. Draco, who is Lucius' son

                3. a woman, whom Harry supposes must be Draco's mother






                share|improve this answer

























                  up vote
                  4
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  4
                  down vote









                  It looks like you're dividing the sentence slightly incorrectly. Segmented correctly, it looks something like this:




                  Dobby the house-elf

                  's former owners:

                  Lucius Malfoy;

                  his son, Draco;

                  and a woman Harry supposed must be Draco's mother.




                  So, "Dobby the house-elf" is being used like a name, all in one. Its not actually his name, but it's being used to remind us that Dobby is a house-elf.



                  "Dobby the house-elf" has former owners, who are listed:




                  1. Lucius Malfoy

                  2. Draco, who is Lucius' son

                  3. a woman, whom Harry supposes must be Draco's mother






                  share|improve this answer














                  It looks like you're dividing the sentence slightly incorrectly. Segmented correctly, it looks something like this:




                  Dobby the house-elf

                  's former owners:

                  Lucius Malfoy;

                  his son, Draco;

                  and a woman Harry supposed must be Draco's mother.




                  So, "Dobby the house-elf" is being used like a name, all in one. Its not actually his name, but it's being used to remind us that Dobby is a house-elf.



                  "Dobby the house-elf" has former owners, who are listed:




                  1. Lucius Malfoy

                  2. Draco, who is Lucius' son

                  3. a woman, whom Harry supposes must be Draco's mother







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited Dec 7 at 14:39

























                  answered Dec 7 at 13:50









                  anaximander

                  29316




                  29316






















                      up vote
                      3
                      down vote













                      A more compact version of KRyan's answer: distinguishing between "(Dobby the house-elf)'s former master" and "Dobby (the house-elf's former master)" is generally done by putting a comma between "Dobby" and "the" to indicate the latter. It would not be uncommon for someone with poor grammatical skills to omit the comma, and so the lack of comma cannot be universally considered to be conclusive as to the former being meant, but JK Rowling (or her editors) seem to have a decent grasp on grammar, and anyone keeping up with the story would know that the Malfoys are Dobby's former masters, so there is not much ambiguity. As KRyan says, the latter would probably be considered a nonrestrictive appositive, but most speakers would not be familiar with that terminology.



                      We could, if we tried hard enough, contrive a situation where "the house-elf's former master" would be restrictive. For instance, if there were multiple characters named Dobby, and one of them was former master of a house-elf, we might specify that we were talking about that one by saying "Dobby the house-elf's former master". If we were worried about ambiguity, we might treat it as nonrestrictive and put in a comma, or set if off with hyphens: "Dobby the house-elf's-former-master", parentheses: "Dobby (the house-elf's former master)", or dashes: Dobby -- the house-elf's former master --".






                      share|improve this answer

























                        up vote
                        3
                        down vote













                        A more compact version of KRyan's answer: distinguishing between "(Dobby the house-elf)'s former master" and "Dobby (the house-elf's former master)" is generally done by putting a comma between "Dobby" and "the" to indicate the latter. It would not be uncommon for someone with poor grammatical skills to omit the comma, and so the lack of comma cannot be universally considered to be conclusive as to the former being meant, but JK Rowling (or her editors) seem to have a decent grasp on grammar, and anyone keeping up with the story would know that the Malfoys are Dobby's former masters, so there is not much ambiguity. As KRyan says, the latter would probably be considered a nonrestrictive appositive, but most speakers would not be familiar with that terminology.



                        We could, if we tried hard enough, contrive a situation where "the house-elf's former master" would be restrictive. For instance, if there were multiple characters named Dobby, and one of them was former master of a house-elf, we might specify that we were talking about that one by saying "Dobby the house-elf's former master". If we were worried about ambiguity, we might treat it as nonrestrictive and put in a comma, or set if off with hyphens: "Dobby the house-elf's-former-master", parentheses: "Dobby (the house-elf's former master)", or dashes: Dobby -- the house-elf's former master --".






                        share|improve this answer























                          up vote
                          3
                          down vote










                          up vote
                          3
                          down vote









                          A more compact version of KRyan's answer: distinguishing between "(Dobby the house-elf)'s former master" and "Dobby (the house-elf's former master)" is generally done by putting a comma between "Dobby" and "the" to indicate the latter. It would not be uncommon for someone with poor grammatical skills to omit the comma, and so the lack of comma cannot be universally considered to be conclusive as to the former being meant, but JK Rowling (or her editors) seem to have a decent grasp on grammar, and anyone keeping up with the story would know that the Malfoys are Dobby's former masters, so there is not much ambiguity. As KRyan says, the latter would probably be considered a nonrestrictive appositive, but most speakers would not be familiar with that terminology.



                          We could, if we tried hard enough, contrive a situation where "the house-elf's former master" would be restrictive. For instance, if there were multiple characters named Dobby, and one of them was former master of a house-elf, we might specify that we were talking about that one by saying "Dobby the house-elf's former master". If we were worried about ambiguity, we might treat it as nonrestrictive and put in a comma, or set if off with hyphens: "Dobby the house-elf's-former-master", parentheses: "Dobby (the house-elf's former master)", or dashes: Dobby -- the house-elf's former master --".






                          share|improve this answer












                          A more compact version of KRyan's answer: distinguishing between "(Dobby the house-elf)'s former master" and "Dobby (the house-elf's former master)" is generally done by putting a comma between "Dobby" and "the" to indicate the latter. It would not be uncommon for someone with poor grammatical skills to omit the comma, and so the lack of comma cannot be universally considered to be conclusive as to the former being meant, but JK Rowling (or her editors) seem to have a decent grasp on grammar, and anyone keeping up with the story would know that the Malfoys are Dobby's former masters, so there is not much ambiguity. As KRyan says, the latter would probably be considered a nonrestrictive appositive, but most speakers would not be familiar with that terminology.



                          We could, if we tried hard enough, contrive a situation where "the house-elf's former master" would be restrictive. For instance, if there were multiple characters named Dobby, and one of them was former master of a house-elf, we might specify that we were talking about that one by saying "Dobby the house-elf's former master". If we were worried about ambiguity, we might treat it as nonrestrictive and put in a comma, or set if off with hyphens: "Dobby the house-elf's-former-master", parentheses: "Dobby (the house-elf's former master)", or dashes: Dobby -- the house-elf's former master --".







                          share|improve this answer












                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer










                          answered Dec 7 at 17:51









                          Acccumulation

                          1,02816




                          1,02816






























                              draft saved

                              draft discarded




















































                              Thanks for contributing an answer to English Language Learners Stack Exchange!


                              • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                              But avoid



                              • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                              • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                              To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.





                              Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.


                              Please pay close attention to the following guidance:


                              • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                              But avoid



                              • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                              • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                              To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                              draft saved


                              draft discarded














                              StackExchange.ready(
                              function () {
                              StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fell.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f187807%2fdobby-the-house-elfs-former-owners%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                              }
                              );

                              Post as a guest















                              Required, but never shown





















































                              Required, but never shown














                              Required, but never shown












                              Required, but never shown







                              Required, but never shown

































                              Required, but never shown














                              Required, but never shown












                              Required, but never shown







                              Required, but never shown







                              Popular posts from this blog

                              flock() on closed filehandle LOCK_FILE at /usr/bin/apt-mirror

                              Mangá

                              Eduardo VII do Reino Unido