Why are UK MPs targeting the prime minister and not the deal?
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Given that the Prime Minister's activity that has given rise to discontent in her own party, that any EU deal is subject to an imminent meaningful vote, and that no alternative candidate nor markedly better prospects for a deal resolving the NI backstop are obvious (the EU will hardly allow the UK a unilateral right to disengage unless the NI situation is resolved satisfactorily), what are the reasons why an MP would write to the 1922 Committee targeting the PM, rather than simply wait the extra day or two, and vote against her proposed deal?
united-kingdom brexit conservative-party
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up vote
4
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Given that the Prime Minister's activity that has given rise to discontent in her own party, that any EU deal is subject to an imminent meaningful vote, and that no alternative candidate nor markedly better prospects for a deal resolving the NI backstop are obvious (the EU will hardly allow the UK a unilateral right to disengage unless the NI situation is resolved satisfactorily), what are the reasons why an MP would write to the 1922 Committee targeting the PM, rather than simply wait the extra day or two, and vote against her proposed deal?
united-kingdom brexit conservative-party
add a comment |
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
up vote
4
down vote
favorite
Given that the Prime Minister's activity that has given rise to discontent in her own party, that any EU deal is subject to an imminent meaningful vote, and that no alternative candidate nor markedly better prospects for a deal resolving the NI backstop are obvious (the EU will hardly allow the UK a unilateral right to disengage unless the NI situation is resolved satisfactorily), what are the reasons why an MP would write to the 1922 Committee targeting the PM, rather than simply wait the extra day or two, and vote against her proposed deal?
united-kingdom brexit conservative-party
Given that the Prime Minister's activity that has given rise to discontent in her own party, that any EU deal is subject to an imminent meaningful vote, and that no alternative candidate nor markedly better prospects for a deal resolving the NI backstop are obvious (the EU will hardly allow the UK a unilateral right to disengage unless the NI situation is resolved satisfactorily), what are the reasons why an MP would write to the 1922 Committee targeting the PM, rather than simply wait the extra day or two, and vote against her proposed deal?
united-kingdom brexit conservative-party
united-kingdom brexit conservative-party
edited 1 hour ago
user
6,00721227
6,00721227
asked 5 hours ago
Stilez
1,7052514
1,7052514
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
up vote
8
down vote
The PM has played this disastrously and is now under fire from at least three sources of opposition:
the so-called "ERG", who believe that her deal is bad because it's not Brexity enough. They claim that a better deal with no backstop or a fake backstop is possible, despite all the evidence to the contrary. However, these people probably put in their letters long ago and there's only about 20 of them.
the "moderate" faction, who believe that it might be possible to get a less bad deal by being less Brexity; the "Norway+" option. This also includes actual Remainers, although at this stage there's still no obvious Remain leadership candidate (Soubry? Hardly.)
the "basic competence" discontents: the government was found to be in contempt of Parliament last week, which was an almost unprecedented condemnation. The government has also started trying to delay the vote on the deal. Cabinet ministers openly brief against their own government and vice versa. The basic ability of the government to function is in question and even Tories are going to get fed up of this after a while.
The deal is not necessarily up for immediate voting, I believe that May could delay it indefinitely because she has control of government "programme motions".
A good answer, though I think you should strike the word "trying" from the 3rd bullet. The Government has delayed the vote on the deal, removing it from the schedule at short notice. There's no trying, it's been booted down the road wasting yet more time. The ERG's membership, while unpublished is estimated at over 50 by Wikipedia based on subscribers to the ERG's pooled services.
– Jontia
3 hours ago
Why is Soubry hardly an obvious Remain leadership candidate? She may not have enough support to win the leadership, but the party did "elect" a "remainer" last time. I would say Soubry has been posturing publicly enough recently to suggest she might be considering a leadership bid.
– Ty Hayes
2 hours ago
1
@TyHayes as a backbencher I don't believe she has enough popularity with the rest of the party, but anything could happen.
– pjc50
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
Theresa May isn't just being targeted over Brexit, though.
- May called snap elections in 2017, in a bid to strengthen her hand. Instead, she lost seats and had to form a coalition government (where the Tories had outright control before). There's no question she did considerable political damage to herself at this point.
- Brexit was always ill-defined during the Cameron era and May was not the chief proponent. Boris Johnson, the most outspoken proponent, refused to run for PM, likely because he knew the Brexit process would be messy (i.e. how the Ireland/Northern Ireland border will work)
- May's negotiations over Brexit have not exactly been according to plan. The general idea was to get the UK out from under EU rule but the current deal still leaves some EU power in place. As such, many in May's own party would not vote for it. Since her standing as PM is at stake, May postponed the vote to stave off a no-confidence vote but the political blood is in the water now.
2
Small correction to (1). No formal coallition similar to the 2010-2015 Conservative-Lib Dem Government was formed. Instead Theresa May's post-2017 Government is a minority Conservative Gov which has support from Northern Ireland's Democratic Unionist Party in a confidence & supply arrangement. The two parties do not have a formal plan for this Parliament together, but the DUP is expected to vote in favour of the Government in key votes such as the budget
– Michael Dodd
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
May cancelled the vote on her deal and went to see EU leaders with a view to renegotiating it, which was immediately rejected. She can delay the vote until late January, but that leaves little time to do anything else if it is rejected and few people think that there is anything she can do to rescue it.
Reading some of the letters sent to the 1922 Committee, it seems that most of those MPs are unhappy with May's vision of Brexit and her inability to deliver it. They are concerned that the UK will drift into a bad deal or no deal simply by running out of time, and wish to see someone more to their liking take over.
So in answer to the question, by the time they get a vote on the deal it may be too late.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Because they are politicians and therefore the normal rules of logic do not apply.
When there is an opportunity to kick another politician they oppose they make personal attacks to 'play to the house' of their own supporters rather than actually trying to come to an arrangement through negotiation or debate and progress with running the country.
New contributor
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
8
down vote
The PM has played this disastrously and is now under fire from at least three sources of opposition:
the so-called "ERG", who believe that her deal is bad because it's not Brexity enough. They claim that a better deal with no backstop or a fake backstop is possible, despite all the evidence to the contrary. However, these people probably put in their letters long ago and there's only about 20 of them.
the "moderate" faction, who believe that it might be possible to get a less bad deal by being less Brexity; the "Norway+" option. This also includes actual Remainers, although at this stage there's still no obvious Remain leadership candidate (Soubry? Hardly.)
the "basic competence" discontents: the government was found to be in contempt of Parliament last week, which was an almost unprecedented condemnation. The government has also started trying to delay the vote on the deal. Cabinet ministers openly brief against their own government and vice versa. The basic ability of the government to function is in question and even Tories are going to get fed up of this after a while.
The deal is not necessarily up for immediate voting, I believe that May could delay it indefinitely because she has control of government "programme motions".
A good answer, though I think you should strike the word "trying" from the 3rd bullet. The Government has delayed the vote on the deal, removing it from the schedule at short notice. There's no trying, it's been booted down the road wasting yet more time. The ERG's membership, while unpublished is estimated at over 50 by Wikipedia based on subscribers to the ERG's pooled services.
– Jontia
3 hours ago
Why is Soubry hardly an obvious Remain leadership candidate? She may not have enough support to win the leadership, but the party did "elect" a "remainer" last time. I would say Soubry has been posturing publicly enough recently to suggest she might be considering a leadership bid.
– Ty Hayes
2 hours ago
1
@TyHayes as a backbencher I don't believe she has enough popularity with the rest of the party, but anything could happen.
– pjc50
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
The PM has played this disastrously and is now under fire from at least three sources of opposition:
the so-called "ERG", who believe that her deal is bad because it's not Brexity enough. They claim that a better deal with no backstop or a fake backstop is possible, despite all the evidence to the contrary. However, these people probably put in their letters long ago and there's only about 20 of them.
the "moderate" faction, who believe that it might be possible to get a less bad deal by being less Brexity; the "Norway+" option. This also includes actual Remainers, although at this stage there's still no obvious Remain leadership candidate (Soubry? Hardly.)
the "basic competence" discontents: the government was found to be in contempt of Parliament last week, which was an almost unprecedented condemnation. The government has also started trying to delay the vote on the deal. Cabinet ministers openly brief against their own government and vice versa. The basic ability of the government to function is in question and even Tories are going to get fed up of this after a while.
The deal is not necessarily up for immediate voting, I believe that May could delay it indefinitely because she has control of government "programme motions".
A good answer, though I think you should strike the word "trying" from the 3rd bullet. The Government has delayed the vote on the deal, removing it from the schedule at short notice. There's no trying, it's been booted down the road wasting yet more time. The ERG's membership, while unpublished is estimated at over 50 by Wikipedia based on subscribers to the ERG's pooled services.
– Jontia
3 hours ago
Why is Soubry hardly an obvious Remain leadership candidate? She may not have enough support to win the leadership, but the party did "elect" a "remainer" last time. I would say Soubry has been posturing publicly enough recently to suggest she might be considering a leadership bid.
– Ty Hayes
2 hours ago
1
@TyHayes as a backbencher I don't believe she has enough popularity with the rest of the party, but anything could happen.
– pjc50
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
8
down vote
up vote
8
down vote
The PM has played this disastrously and is now under fire from at least three sources of opposition:
the so-called "ERG", who believe that her deal is bad because it's not Brexity enough. They claim that a better deal with no backstop or a fake backstop is possible, despite all the evidence to the contrary. However, these people probably put in their letters long ago and there's only about 20 of them.
the "moderate" faction, who believe that it might be possible to get a less bad deal by being less Brexity; the "Norway+" option. This also includes actual Remainers, although at this stage there's still no obvious Remain leadership candidate (Soubry? Hardly.)
the "basic competence" discontents: the government was found to be in contempt of Parliament last week, which was an almost unprecedented condemnation. The government has also started trying to delay the vote on the deal. Cabinet ministers openly brief against their own government and vice versa. The basic ability of the government to function is in question and even Tories are going to get fed up of this after a while.
The deal is not necessarily up for immediate voting, I believe that May could delay it indefinitely because she has control of government "programme motions".
The PM has played this disastrously and is now under fire from at least three sources of opposition:
the so-called "ERG", who believe that her deal is bad because it's not Brexity enough. They claim that a better deal with no backstop or a fake backstop is possible, despite all the evidence to the contrary. However, these people probably put in their letters long ago and there's only about 20 of them.
the "moderate" faction, who believe that it might be possible to get a less bad deal by being less Brexity; the "Norway+" option. This also includes actual Remainers, although at this stage there's still no obvious Remain leadership candidate (Soubry? Hardly.)
the "basic competence" discontents: the government was found to be in contempt of Parliament last week, which was an almost unprecedented condemnation. The government has also started trying to delay the vote on the deal. Cabinet ministers openly brief against their own government and vice versa. The basic ability of the government to function is in question and even Tories are going to get fed up of this after a while.
The deal is not necessarily up for immediate voting, I believe that May could delay it indefinitely because she has control of government "programme motions".
answered 4 hours ago
pjc50
3,9611019
3,9611019
A good answer, though I think you should strike the word "trying" from the 3rd bullet. The Government has delayed the vote on the deal, removing it from the schedule at short notice. There's no trying, it's been booted down the road wasting yet more time. The ERG's membership, while unpublished is estimated at over 50 by Wikipedia based on subscribers to the ERG's pooled services.
– Jontia
3 hours ago
Why is Soubry hardly an obvious Remain leadership candidate? She may not have enough support to win the leadership, but the party did "elect" a "remainer" last time. I would say Soubry has been posturing publicly enough recently to suggest she might be considering a leadership bid.
– Ty Hayes
2 hours ago
1
@TyHayes as a backbencher I don't believe she has enough popularity with the rest of the party, but anything could happen.
– pjc50
2 hours ago
add a comment |
A good answer, though I think you should strike the word "trying" from the 3rd bullet. The Government has delayed the vote on the deal, removing it from the schedule at short notice. There's no trying, it's been booted down the road wasting yet more time. The ERG's membership, while unpublished is estimated at over 50 by Wikipedia based on subscribers to the ERG's pooled services.
– Jontia
3 hours ago
Why is Soubry hardly an obvious Remain leadership candidate? She may not have enough support to win the leadership, but the party did "elect" a "remainer" last time. I would say Soubry has been posturing publicly enough recently to suggest she might be considering a leadership bid.
– Ty Hayes
2 hours ago
1
@TyHayes as a backbencher I don't believe she has enough popularity with the rest of the party, but anything could happen.
– pjc50
2 hours ago
A good answer, though I think you should strike the word "trying" from the 3rd bullet. The Government has delayed the vote on the deal, removing it from the schedule at short notice. There's no trying, it's been booted down the road wasting yet more time. The ERG's membership, while unpublished is estimated at over 50 by Wikipedia based on subscribers to the ERG's pooled services.
– Jontia
3 hours ago
A good answer, though I think you should strike the word "trying" from the 3rd bullet. The Government has delayed the vote on the deal, removing it from the schedule at short notice. There's no trying, it's been booted down the road wasting yet more time. The ERG's membership, while unpublished is estimated at over 50 by Wikipedia based on subscribers to the ERG's pooled services.
– Jontia
3 hours ago
Why is Soubry hardly an obvious Remain leadership candidate? She may not have enough support to win the leadership, but the party did "elect" a "remainer" last time. I would say Soubry has been posturing publicly enough recently to suggest she might be considering a leadership bid.
– Ty Hayes
2 hours ago
Why is Soubry hardly an obvious Remain leadership candidate? She may not have enough support to win the leadership, but the party did "elect" a "remainer" last time. I would say Soubry has been posturing publicly enough recently to suggest she might be considering a leadership bid.
– Ty Hayes
2 hours ago
1
1
@TyHayes as a backbencher I don't believe she has enough popularity with the rest of the party, but anything could happen.
– pjc50
2 hours ago
@TyHayes as a backbencher I don't believe she has enough popularity with the rest of the party, but anything could happen.
– pjc50
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
Theresa May isn't just being targeted over Brexit, though.
- May called snap elections in 2017, in a bid to strengthen her hand. Instead, she lost seats and had to form a coalition government (where the Tories had outright control before). There's no question she did considerable political damage to herself at this point.
- Brexit was always ill-defined during the Cameron era and May was not the chief proponent. Boris Johnson, the most outspoken proponent, refused to run for PM, likely because he knew the Brexit process would be messy (i.e. how the Ireland/Northern Ireland border will work)
- May's negotiations over Brexit have not exactly been according to plan. The general idea was to get the UK out from under EU rule but the current deal still leaves some EU power in place. As such, many in May's own party would not vote for it. Since her standing as PM is at stake, May postponed the vote to stave off a no-confidence vote but the political blood is in the water now.
2
Small correction to (1). No formal coallition similar to the 2010-2015 Conservative-Lib Dem Government was formed. Instead Theresa May's post-2017 Government is a minority Conservative Gov which has support from Northern Ireland's Democratic Unionist Party in a confidence & supply arrangement. The two parties do not have a formal plan for this Parliament together, but the DUP is expected to vote in favour of the Government in key votes such as the budget
– Michael Dodd
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
Theresa May isn't just being targeted over Brexit, though.
- May called snap elections in 2017, in a bid to strengthen her hand. Instead, she lost seats and had to form a coalition government (where the Tories had outright control before). There's no question she did considerable political damage to herself at this point.
- Brexit was always ill-defined during the Cameron era and May was not the chief proponent. Boris Johnson, the most outspoken proponent, refused to run for PM, likely because he knew the Brexit process would be messy (i.e. how the Ireland/Northern Ireland border will work)
- May's negotiations over Brexit have not exactly been according to plan. The general idea was to get the UK out from under EU rule but the current deal still leaves some EU power in place. As such, many in May's own party would not vote for it. Since her standing as PM is at stake, May postponed the vote to stave off a no-confidence vote but the political blood is in the water now.
2
Small correction to (1). No formal coallition similar to the 2010-2015 Conservative-Lib Dem Government was formed. Instead Theresa May's post-2017 Government is a minority Conservative Gov which has support from Northern Ireland's Democratic Unionist Party in a confidence & supply arrangement. The two parties do not have a formal plan for this Parliament together, but the DUP is expected to vote in favour of the Government in key votes such as the budget
– Michael Dodd
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
7
down vote
up vote
7
down vote
Theresa May isn't just being targeted over Brexit, though.
- May called snap elections in 2017, in a bid to strengthen her hand. Instead, she lost seats and had to form a coalition government (where the Tories had outright control before). There's no question she did considerable political damage to herself at this point.
- Brexit was always ill-defined during the Cameron era and May was not the chief proponent. Boris Johnson, the most outspoken proponent, refused to run for PM, likely because he knew the Brexit process would be messy (i.e. how the Ireland/Northern Ireland border will work)
- May's negotiations over Brexit have not exactly been according to plan. The general idea was to get the UK out from under EU rule but the current deal still leaves some EU power in place. As such, many in May's own party would not vote for it. Since her standing as PM is at stake, May postponed the vote to stave off a no-confidence vote but the political blood is in the water now.
Theresa May isn't just being targeted over Brexit, though.
- May called snap elections in 2017, in a bid to strengthen her hand. Instead, she lost seats and had to form a coalition government (where the Tories had outright control before). There's no question she did considerable political damage to herself at this point.
- Brexit was always ill-defined during the Cameron era and May was not the chief proponent. Boris Johnson, the most outspoken proponent, refused to run for PM, likely because he knew the Brexit process would be messy (i.e. how the Ireland/Northern Ireland border will work)
- May's negotiations over Brexit have not exactly been according to plan. The general idea was to get the UK out from under EU rule but the current deal still leaves some EU power in place. As such, many in May's own party would not vote for it. Since her standing as PM is at stake, May postponed the vote to stave off a no-confidence vote but the political blood is in the water now.
answered 4 hours ago
Machavity
14.8k44271
14.8k44271
2
Small correction to (1). No formal coallition similar to the 2010-2015 Conservative-Lib Dem Government was formed. Instead Theresa May's post-2017 Government is a minority Conservative Gov which has support from Northern Ireland's Democratic Unionist Party in a confidence & supply arrangement. The two parties do not have a formal plan for this Parliament together, but the DUP is expected to vote in favour of the Government in key votes such as the budget
– Michael Dodd
2 hours ago
add a comment |
2
Small correction to (1). No formal coallition similar to the 2010-2015 Conservative-Lib Dem Government was formed. Instead Theresa May's post-2017 Government is a minority Conservative Gov which has support from Northern Ireland's Democratic Unionist Party in a confidence & supply arrangement. The two parties do not have a formal plan for this Parliament together, but the DUP is expected to vote in favour of the Government in key votes such as the budget
– Michael Dodd
2 hours ago
2
2
Small correction to (1). No formal coallition similar to the 2010-2015 Conservative-Lib Dem Government was formed. Instead Theresa May's post-2017 Government is a minority Conservative Gov which has support from Northern Ireland's Democratic Unionist Party in a confidence & supply arrangement. The two parties do not have a formal plan for this Parliament together, but the DUP is expected to vote in favour of the Government in key votes such as the budget
– Michael Dodd
2 hours ago
Small correction to (1). No formal coallition similar to the 2010-2015 Conservative-Lib Dem Government was formed. Instead Theresa May's post-2017 Government is a minority Conservative Gov which has support from Northern Ireland's Democratic Unionist Party in a confidence & supply arrangement. The two parties do not have a formal plan for this Parliament together, but the DUP is expected to vote in favour of the Government in key votes such as the budget
– Michael Dodd
2 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
May cancelled the vote on her deal and went to see EU leaders with a view to renegotiating it, which was immediately rejected. She can delay the vote until late January, but that leaves little time to do anything else if it is rejected and few people think that there is anything she can do to rescue it.
Reading some of the letters sent to the 1922 Committee, it seems that most of those MPs are unhappy with May's vision of Brexit and her inability to deliver it. They are concerned that the UK will drift into a bad deal or no deal simply by running out of time, and wish to see someone more to their liking take over.
So in answer to the question, by the time they get a vote on the deal it may be too late.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
May cancelled the vote on her deal and went to see EU leaders with a view to renegotiating it, which was immediately rejected. She can delay the vote until late January, but that leaves little time to do anything else if it is rejected and few people think that there is anything she can do to rescue it.
Reading some of the letters sent to the 1922 Committee, it seems that most of those MPs are unhappy with May's vision of Brexit and her inability to deliver it. They are concerned that the UK will drift into a bad deal or no deal simply by running out of time, and wish to see someone more to their liking take over.
So in answer to the question, by the time they get a vote on the deal it may be too late.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
May cancelled the vote on her deal and went to see EU leaders with a view to renegotiating it, which was immediately rejected. She can delay the vote until late January, but that leaves little time to do anything else if it is rejected and few people think that there is anything she can do to rescue it.
Reading some of the letters sent to the 1922 Committee, it seems that most of those MPs are unhappy with May's vision of Brexit and her inability to deliver it. They are concerned that the UK will drift into a bad deal or no deal simply by running out of time, and wish to see someone more to their liking take over.
So in answer to the question, by the time they get a vote on the deal it may be too late.
May cancelled the vote on her deal and went to see EU leaders with a view to renegotiating it, which was immediately rejected. She can delay the vote until late January, but that leaves little time to do anything else if it is rejected and few people think that there is anything she can do to rescue it.
Reading some of the letters sent to the 1922 Committee, it seems that most of those MPs are unhappy with May's vision of Brexit and her inability to deliver it. They are concerned that the UK will drift into a bad deal or no deal simply by running out of time, and wish to see someone more to their liking take over.
So in answer to the question, by the time they get a vote on the deal it may be too late.
answered 1 hour ago
user
6,00721227
6,00721227
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Because they are politicians and therefore the normal rules of logic do not apply.
When there is an opportunity to kick another politician they oppose they make personal attacks to 'play to the house' of their own supporters rather than actually trying to come to an arrangement through negotiation or debate and progress with running the country.
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Because they are politicians and therefore the normal rules of logic do not apply.
When there is an opportunity to kick another politician they oppose they make personal attacks to 'play to the house' of their own supporters rather than actually trying to come to an arrangement through negotiation or debate and progress with running the country.
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
Because they are politicians and therefore the normal rules of logic do not apply.
When there is an opportunity to kick another politician they oppose they make personal attacks to 'play to the house' of their own supporters rather than actually trying to come to an arrangement through negotiation or debate and progress with running the country.
New contributor
Because they are politicians and therefore the normal rules of logic do not apply.
When there is an opportunity to kick another politician they oppose they make personal attacks to 'play to the house' of their own supporters rather than actually trying to come to an arrangement through negotiation or debate and progress with running the country.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 42 secs ago
GeeTee
1
1
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
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