Is it possible to map the firing of neurons in the human brain so as to stimulate artificial memories in...












5












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My question is based on the following excerpt from an article I read recently:




Since the early neurological work of Karl Lashley and Wilder Penfield in the 1950s and 1960s, it has become clear that long-term memories are not stored in just one part of the brain, but are widely distributed throughout the cortex. After consolidation, long-term memories are stored throughout the brain as groups of neurons that are primed to fire together in the same pattern that created the original experience, and each component of a memory is stored in the brain area that initiated it (e.g. groups of neurons in the visual cortex store a sight, neurons in the amygdala store the associated emotion, etc). Indeed, it seems that they may even be encoded redundantly, several times, in various parts of the cortex, so that, if one engram (or memory trace) is wiped out, there are duplicates, or alternative pathways, elsewhere, through which the memory may still be retrieved.




Is it, therefore, theoretically possible to create a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?



By extension, could this machine map out the neuron firing order that occurs while someone studies mathematics or physics, and then to replicate such firing in another person so as to impart that knowledge upon them? Or is there some additional element that arises when living through the experience yourself that cannot be reproduced in such a binary fashion as "firing of neutrons". If so, what does that say about the passage quoted above?










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  • $begingroup$
    "Stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B:" in this sentence the word "identical" cannot possibly mean "identical". Two different persons, even "identical" twins, have different neural connectomes.
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    1 hour ago
















5












$begingroup$


My question is based on the following excerpt from an article I read recently:




Since the early neurological work of Karl Lashley and Wilder Penfield in the 1950s and 1960s, it has become clear that long-term memories are not stored in just one part of the brain, but are widely distributed throughout the cortex. After consolidation, long-term memories are stored throughout the brain as groups of neurons that are primed to fire together in the same pattern that created the original experience, and each component of a memory is stored in the brain area that initiated it (e.g. groups of neurons in the visual cortex store a sight, neurons in the amygdala store the associated emotion, etc). Indeed, it seems that they may even be encoded redundantly, several times, in various parts of the cortex, so that, if one engram (or memory trace) is wiped out, there are duplicates, or alternative pathways, elsewhere, through which the memory may still be retrieved.




Is it, therefore, theoretically possible to create a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?



By extension, could this machine map out the neuron firing order that occurs while someone studies mathematics or physics, and then to replicate such firing in another person so as to impart that knowledge upon them? Or is there some additional element that arises when living through the experience yourself that cannot be reproduced in such a binary fashion as "firing of neutrons". If so, what does that say about the passage quoted above?










share|improve this question









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Red Robin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • $begingroup$
    "Stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B:" in this sentence the word "identical" cannot possibly mean "identical". Two different persons, even "identical" twins, have different neural connectomes.
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    1 hour ago














5












5








5





$begingroup$


My question is based on the following excerpt from an article I read recently:




Since the early neurological work of Karl Lashley and Wilder Penfield in the 1950s and 1960s, it has become clear that long-term memories are not stored in just one part of the brain, but are widely distributed throughout the cortex. After consolidation, long-term memories are stored throughout the brain as groups of neurons that are primed to fire together in the same pattern that created the original experience, and each component of a memory is stored in the brain area that initiated it (e.g. groups of neurons in the visual cortex store a sight, neurons in the amygdala store the associated emotion, etc). Indeed, it seems that they may even be encoded redundantly, several times, in various parts of the cortex, so that, if one engram (or memory trace) is wiped out, there are duplicates, or alternative pathways, elsewhere, through which the memory may still be retrieved.




Is it, therefore, theoretically possible to create a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?



By extension, could this machine map out the neuron firing order that occurs while someone studies mathematics or physics, and then to replicate such firing in another person so as to impart that knowledge upon them? Or is there some additional element that arises when living through the experience yourself that cannot be reproduced in such a binary fashion as "firing of neutrons". If so, what does that say about the passage quoted above?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Red Robin is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




My question is based on the following excerpt from an article I read recently:




Since the early neurological work of Karl Lashley and Wilder Penfield in the 1950s and 1960s, it has become clear that long-term memories are not stored in just one part of the brain, but are widely distributed throughout the cortex. After consolidation, long-term memories are stored throughout the brain as groups of neurons that are primed to fire together in the same pattern that created the original experience, and each component of a memory is stored in the brain area that initiated it (e.g. groups of neurons in the visual cortex store a sight, neurons in the amygdala store the associated emotion, etc). Indeed, it seems that they may even be encoded redundantly, several times, in various parts of the cortex, so that, if one engram (or memory trace) is wiped out, there are duplicates, or alternative pathways, elsewhere, through which the memory may still be retrieved.




Is it, therefore, theoretically possible to create a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?



By extension, could this machine map out the neuron firing order that occurs while someone studies mathematics or physics, and then to replicate such firing in another person so as to impart that knowledge upon them? Or is there some additional element that arises when living through the experience yourself that cannot be reproduced in such a binary fashion as "firing of neutrons". If so, what does that say about the passage quoted above?







science-based science-fiction brain memory






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edited 1 hour ago









Cyn

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asked 1 hour ago









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  • $begingroup$
    "Stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B:" in this sentence the word "identical" cannot possibly mean "identical". Two different persons, even "identical" twins, have different neural connectomes.
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    1 hour ago


















  • $begingroup$
    "Stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B:" in this sentence the word "identical" cannot possibly mean "identical". Two different persons, even "identical" twins, have different neural connectomes.
    $endgroup$
    – AlexP
    1 hour ago
















$begingroup$
"Stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B:" in this sentence the word "identical" cannot possibly mean "identical". Two different persons, even "identical" twins, have different neural connectomes.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
"Stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B:" in this sentence the word "identical" cannot possibly mean "identical". Two different persons, even "identical" twins, have different neural connectomes.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
1 hour ago










3 Answers
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$begingroup$


a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?




This can only work if the wiring of the neurons in our brain is standardized and homogeneous like the circuitry in a high end smartphone. Sadly, that's not the case.



It is known that from the moment we are born any experience we have remodel the neurons and their connection: those more used are kept, those unused are discarded. This means that no two persons have the same neurons and connections. Thus, at most, firing pattern(A) into B would result in noise, like opening an encrypted file without unencrypting it.






share|improve this answer









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    2












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    No, each person brain is different and the map from one will not produce the same results in another.



    Due to plasticity and how each brain is individually trained to your sensory organs and experiences each memory in each brain is unique. Each brain a has a unique map of connections called a Connectome. A perfect copy of someone else's memory would require identical brains otherwise the linkages will not match up with the rest of the brain. Your map for concepts is not identical to mine, so the connections will not be to the same concepts. Your spliced inot connections will produce nonsense. Research into artificial senses show the same problem, their solution is an extended process by which the brain and the interface learn each others connections, basically the same way you learn to see with your eyes as a baby.



    additional source






    share|improve this answer











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      -1












      $begingroup$

      On an individual basis?



      I wrote some fiction in which an artificial intelligence tracks the firing of neurons associated with a persons experience as it happens, then replays those firings later to recreate the sensory inputs associated with that particular experience.



      Currently that fiction is here http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Spinal_20Cord_20Signal_20Intercept_20Passthrough
      the 2015 entry for bungston.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$









      • 1




        $begingroup$
        this doesn't really answer the question of whether or not it is possible, it just states that you once wrote a story about a similar concept
        $endgroup$
        – DJ Spicy Deluxe-Levi
        57 mins ago












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      3 Answers
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      3 Answers
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      $begingroup$


      a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?




      This can only work if the wiring of the neurons in our brain is standardized and homogeneous like the circuitry in a high end smartphone. Sadly, that's not the case.



      It is known that from the moment we are born any experience we have remodel the neurons and their connection: those more used are kept, those unused are discarded. This means that no two persons have the same neurons and connections. Thus, at most, firing pattern(A) into B would result in noise, like opening an encrypted file without unencrypting it.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$


















        10












        $begingroup$


        a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?




        This can only work if the wiring of the neurons in our brain is standardized and homogeneous like the circuitry in a high end smartphone. Sadly, that's not the case.



        It is known that from the moment we are born any experience we have remodel the neurons and their connection: those more used are kept, those unused are discarded. This means that no two persons have the same neurons and connections. Thus, at most, firing pattern(A) into B would result in noise, like opening an encrypted file without unencrypting it.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$
















          10












          10








          10





          $begingroup$


          a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?




          This can only work if the wiring of the neurons in our brain is standardized and homogeneous like the circuitry in a high end smartphone. Sadly, that's not the case.



          It is known that from the moment we are born any experience we have remodel the neurons and their connection: those more used are kept, those unused are discarded. This means that no two persons have the same neurons and connections. Thus, at most, firing pattern(A) into B would result in noise, like opening an encrypted file without unencrypting it.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$




          a machine that perfectly maps out the way in which neurons fire in Patient A regarding a certain memory, and then to stimulate an identical firing of neurons in Patient B, so as to allow them to live that memory or even believe it to be theirs?




          This can only work if the wiring of the neurons in our brain is standardized and homogeneous like the circuitry in a high end smartphone. Sadly, that's not the case.



          It is known that from the moment we are born any experience we have remodel the neurons and their connection: those more used are kept, those unused are discarded. This means that no two persons have the same neurons and connections. Thus, at most, firing pattern(A) into B would result in noise, like opening an encrypted file without unencrypting it.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 1 hour ago









          L.DutchL.Dutch

          89.8k29208436




          89.8k29208436























              2












              $begingroup$

              No, each person brain is different and the map from one will not produce the same results in another.



              Due to plasticity and how each brain is individually trained to your sensory organs and experiences each memory in each brain is unique. Each brain a has a unique map of connections called a Connectome. A perfect copy of someone else's memory would require identical brains otherwise the linkages will not match up with the rest of the brain. Your map for concepts is not identical to mine, so the connections will not be to the same concepts. Your spliced inot connections will produce nonsense. Research into artificial senses show the same problem, their solution is an extended process by which the brain and the interface learn each others connections, basically the same way you learn to see with your eyes as a baby.



              additional source






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$


















                2












                $begingroup$

                No, each person brain is different and the map from one will not produce the same results in another.



                Due to plasticity and how each brain is individually trained to your sensory organs and experiences each memory in each brain is unique. Each brain a has a unique map of connections called a Connectome. A perfect copy of someone else's memory would require identical brains otherwise the linkages will not match up with the rest of the brain. Your map for concepts is not identical to mine, so the connections will not be to the same concepts. Your spliced inot connections will produce nonsense. Research into artificial senses show the same problem, their solution is an extended process by which the brain and the interface learn each others connections, basically the same way you learn to see with your eyes as a baby.



                additional source






                share|improve this answer











                $endgroup$
















                  2












                  2








                  2





                  $begingroup$

                  No, each person brain is different and the map from one will not produce the same results in another.



                  Due to plasticity and how each brain is individually trained to your sensory organs and experiences each memory in each brain is unique. Each brain a has a unique map of connections called a Connectome. A perfect copy of someone else's memory would require identical brains otherwise the linkages will not match up with the rest of the brain. Your map for concepts is not identical to mine, so the connections will not be to the same concepts. Your spliced inot connections will produce nonsense. Research into artificial senses show the same problem, their solution is an extended process by which the brain and the interface learn each others connections, basically the same way you learn to see with your eyes as a baby.



                  additional source






                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  No, each person brain is different and the map from one will not produce the same results in another.



                  Due to plasticity and how each brain is individually trained to your sensory organs and experiences each memory in each brain is unique. Each brain a has a unique map of connections called a Connectome. A perfect copy of someone else's memory would require identical brains otherwise the linkages will not match up with the rest of the brain. Your map for concepts is not identical to mine, so the connections will not be to the same concepts. Your spliced inot connections will produce nonsense. Research into artificial senses show the same problem, their solution is an extended process by which the brain and the interface learn each others connections, basically the same way you learn to see with your eyes as a baby.



                  additional source







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited 1 hour ago









                  Renan

                  52k15119258




                  52k15119258










                  answered 1 hour ago









                  JohnJohn

                  36k1048122




                  36k1048122























                      -1












                      $begingroup$

                      On an individual basis?



                      I wrote some fiction in which an artificial intelligence tracks the firing of neurons associated with a persons experience as it happens, then replays those firings later to recreate the sensory inputs associated with that particular experience.



                      Currently that fiction is here http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Spinal_20Cord_20Signal_20Intercept_20Passthrough
                      the 2015 entry for bungston.






                      share|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$









                      • 1




                        $begingroup$
                        this doesn't really answer the question of whether or not it is possible, it just states that you once wrote a story about a similar concept
                        $endgroup$
                        – DJ Spicy Deluxe-Levi
                        57 mins ago
















                      -1












                      $begingroup$

                      On an individual basis?



                      I wrote some fiction in which an artificial intelligence tracks the firing of neurons associated with a persons experience as it happens, then replays those firings later to recreate the sensory inputs associated with that particular experience.



                      Currently that fiction is here http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Spinal_20Cord_20Signal_20Intercept_20Passthrough
                      the 2015 entry for bungston.






                      share|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$









                      • 1




                        $begingroup$
                        this doesn't really answer the question of whether or not it is possible, it just states that you once wrote a story about a similar concept
                        $endgroup$
                        – DJ Spicy Deluxe-Levi
                        57 mins ago














                      -1












                      -1








                      -1





                      $begingroup$

                      On an individual basis?



                      I wrote some fiction in which an artificial intelligence tracks the firing of neurons associated with a persons experience as it happens, then replays those firings later to recreate the sensory inputs associated with that particular experience.



                      Currently that fiction is here http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Spinal_20Cord_20Signal_20Intercept_20Passthrough
                      the 2015 entry for bungston.






                      share|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$



                      On an individual basis?



                      I wrote some fiction in which an artificial intelligence tracks the firing of neurons associated with a persons experience as it happens, then replays those firings later to recreate the sensory inputs associated with that particular experience.



                      Currently that fiction is here http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Spinal_20Cord_20Signal_20Intercept_20Passthrough
                      the 2015 entry for bungston.







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered 1 hour ago









                      WillkWillk

                      116k27219486




                      116k27219486








                      • 1




                        $begingroup$
                        this doesn't really answer the question of whether or not it is possible, it just states that you once wrote a story about a similar concept
                        $endgroup$
                        – DJ Spicy Deluxe-Levi
                        57 mins ago














                      • 1




                        $begingroup$
                        this doesn't really answer the question of whether or not it is possible, it just states that you once wrote a story about a similar concept
                        $endgroup$
                        – DJ Spicy Deluxe-Levi
                        57 mins ago








                      1




                      1




                      $begingroup$
                      this doesn't really answer the question of whether or not it is possible, it just states that you once wrote a story about a similar concept
                      $endgroup$
                      – DJ Spicy Deluxe-Levi
                      57 mins ago




                      $begingroup$
                      this doesn't really answer the question of whether or not it is possible, it just states that you once wrote a story about a similar concept
                      $endgroup$
                      – DJ Spicy Deluxe-Levi
                      57 mins ago










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