How to certify a secret decision revealed on a delay in a play-by-post game?











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In a play-by-post game that requires a player to commit to a secret decision and later reveal that decision publicly, how can a player certify that they did so honestly without just relying on good faith? Consider the following example.




  1. Alice commits to a decision, like pre-programming an action she will take. An onlooker might notice she's doing something but they wouldn't know the particulars.

  2. Though Bob doesn't know exactly what Alice is up to, he commits to a decision in response to that, like reacting to stop her. Resolving his decision will depend on resolving her decision.

  3. Alice has to reveal what her committed decision was after the fact in order to resolve it at this point along with Bob's reaction to it. If she's being honest or has a way to certify what her decision was, this is fine. If she is able to lie, she could change her decision retroactively.


Are there common tools, techniques, or conventions to support this? At a table, Alice could simply write her decision in a folded note card and reveal it later; or in a board game, she could play her action card face down and reveal it later. These common table conventions don't translate well to online play. So, how can Alice certify her secret decision to be revealed on a delay?



Assume the game has a GM but that the GM is also a player in need of certifying their decisions and can't act as a proxy for the other players.










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  • Is this a) freeform, b) GMless?
    – SevenSidedDie
    6 hours ago










  • Edited to explain the nature of the GM. I can't answer whether it's "freeform" without a bit more clarity. What do you mean, and what detail is important about it?
    – Bloodcinder
    6 hours ago












  • Freeform is where there’s no rules, just commonly accepted best practices of behaviour. It’s common in forum PbP, especially the tradition that grew out of fandom rather than from existing RPG culture. (It can make a difference, and we have a tag for it, so I wondered.)
    – SevenSidedDie
    1 hour ago















up vote
12
down vote

favorite
2












In a play-by-post game that requires a player to commit to a secret decision and later reveal that decision publicly, how can a player certify that they did so honestly without just relying on good faith? Consider the following example.




  1. Alice commits to a decision, like pre-programming an action she will take. An onlooker might notice she's doing something but they wouldn't know the particulars.

  2. Though Bob doesn't know exactly what Alice is up to, he commits to a decision in response to that, like reacting to stop her. Resolving his decision will depend on resolving her decision.

  3. Alice has to reveal what her committed decision was after the fact in order to resolve it at this point along with Bob's reaction to it. If she's being honest or has a way to certify what her decision was, this is fine. If she is able to lie, she could change her decision retroactively.


Are there common tools, techniques, or conventions to support this? At a table, Alice could simply write her decision in a folded note card and reveal it later; or in a board game, she could play her action card face down and reveal it later. These common table conventions don't translate well to online play. So, how can Alice certify her secret decision to be revealed on a delay?



Assume the game has a GM but that the GM is also a player in need of certifying their decisions and can't act as a proxy for the other players.










share|improve this question
























  • Is this a) freeform, b) GMless?
    – SevenSidedDie
    6 hours ago










  • Edited to explain the nature of the GM. I can't answer whether it's "freeform" without a bit more clarity. What do you mean, and what detail is important about it?
    – Bloodcinder
    6 hours ago












  • Freeform is where there’s no rules, just commonly accepted best practices of behaviour. It’s common in forum PbP, especially the tradition that grew out of fandom rather than from existing RPG culture. (It can make a difference, and we have a tag for it, so I wondered.)
    – SevenSidedDie
    1 hour ago













up vote
12
down vote

favorite
2









up vote
12
down vote

favorite
2






2





In a play-by-post game that requires a player to commit to a secret decision and later reveal that decision publicly, how can a player certify that they did so honestly without just relying on good faith? Consider the following example.




  1. Alice commits to a decision, like pre-programming an action she will take. An onlooker might notice she's doing something but they wouldn't know the particulars.

  2. Though Bob doesn't know exactly what Alice is up to, he commits to a decision in response to that, like reacting to stop her. Resolving his decision will depend on resolving her decision.

  3. Alice has to reveal what her committed decision was after the fact in order to resolve it at this point along with Bob's reaction to it. If she's being honest or has a way to certify what her decision was, this is fine. If she is able to lie, she could change her decision retroactively.


Are there common tools, techniques, or conventions to support this? At a table, Alice could simply write her decision in a folded note card and reveal it later; or in a board game, she could play her action card face down and reveal it later. These common table conventions don't translate well to online play. So, how can Alice certify her secret decision to be revealed on a delay?



Assume the game has a GM but that the GM is also a player in need of certifying their decisions and can't act as a proxy for the other players.










share|improve this question















In a play-by-post game that requires a player to commit to a secret decision and later reveal that decision publicly, how can a player certify that they did so honestly without just relying on good faith? Consider the following example.




  1. Alice commits to a decision, like pre-programming an action she will take. An onlooker might notice she's doing something but they wouldn't know the particulars.

  2. Though Bob doesn't know exactly what Alice is up to, he commits to a decision in response to that, like reacting to stop her. Resolving his decision will depend on resolving her decision.

  3. Alice has to reveal what her committed decision was after the fact in order to resolve it at this point along with Bob's reaction to it. If she's being honest or has a way to certify what her decision was, this is fine. If she is able to lie, she could change her decision retroactively.


Are there common tools, techniques, or conventions to support this? At a table, Alice could simply write her decision in a folded note card and reveal it later; or in a board game, she could play her action card face down and reveal it later. These common table conventions don't translate well to online play. So, how can Alice certify her secret decision to be revealed on a delay?



Assume the game has a GM but that the GM is also a player in need of certifying their decisions and can't act as a proxy for the other players.







play-by-post






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edited 6 hours ago

























asked 13 hours ago









Bloodcinder

17.8k258117




17.8k258117












  • Is this a) freeform, b) GMless?
    – SevenSidedDie
    6 hours ago










  • Edited to explain the nature of the GM. I can't answer whether it's "freeform" without a bit more clarity. What do you mean, and what detail is important about it?
    – Bloodcinder
    6 hours ago












  • Freeform is where there’s no rules, just commonly accepted best practices of behaviour. It’s common in forum PbP, especially the tradition that grew out of fandom rather than from existing RPG culture. (It can make a difference, and we have a tag for it, so I wondered.)
    – SevenSidedDie
    1 hour ago


















  • Is this a) freeform, b) GMless?
    – SevenSidedDie
    6 hours ago










  • Edited to explain the nature of the GM. I can't answer whether it's "freeform" without a bit more clarity. What do you mean, and what detail is important about it?
    – Bloodcinder
    6 hours ago












  • Freeform is where there’s no rules, just commonly accepted best practices of behaviour. It’s common in forum PbP, especially the tradition that grew out of fandom rather than from existing RPG culture. (It can make a difference, and we have a tag for it, so I wondered.)
    – SevenSidedDie
    1 hour ago
















Is this a) freeform, b) GMless?
– SevenSidedDie
6 hours ago




Is this a) freeform, b) GMless?
– SevenSidedDie
6 hours ago












Edited to explain the nature of the GM. I can't answer whether it's "freeform" without a bit more clarity. What do you mean, and what detail is important about it?
– Bloodcinder
6 hours ago






Edited to explain the nature of the GM. I can't answer whether it's "freeform" without a bit more clarity. What do you mean, and what detail is important about it?
– Bloodcinder
6 hours ago














Freeform is where there’s no rules, just commonly accepted best practices of behaviour. It’s common in forum PbP, especially the tradition that grew out of fandom rather than from existing RPG culture. (It can make a difference, and we have a tag for it, so I wondered.)
– SevenSidedDie
1 hour ago




Freeform is where there’s no rules, just commonly accepted best practices of behaviour. It’s common in forum PbP, especially the tradition that grew out of fandom rather than from existing RPG culture. (It can make a difference, and we have a tag for it, so I wondered.)
– SevenSidedDie
1 hour ago










6 Answers
6






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
47
down vote













Have Alice generate and publish an SHA-256 hash of her action.



SHA-256 is a computationally-secure (to reasonable approximation) algorithm that converts a given string into an unintelligible hexadecimal hash. There are online implementations that will compute SHA256 for you, for instance, here.



The idea is this:




  1. Alice decides her action - say, "I cast Fireball at Bob"

  2. Alice privately records that exact text

  3. Alice enters that text into an SHA256 generator, producing a meaningless jumble of characters - A0FC4543FDBA266006F1F9FA818183710A8C5CA80613DA109B8A9DBA194DEC4E

  4. Alice publicly announces "I've planned an action; its SHA-256 is A0FC4543FDBA266006F1F9FA818183710A8C5CA80613DA109B8A9DBA194DEC4E"


Now, Bob cannot tell what Alice has planned because the SHA-256 is not reversible; there's no way to get from the hash back to the action.



Later, when Alice reveals her plan, she gives the exact text she prepared earlier. If Bob doesn't trust her, he can simply repeat the SHA-256 encryption, and verify that the signatures match.



If Alice suspects that Bob may guess her action, then she can make things harder by adding an extra, irrelevant component to the action before computing the SHA-256. For instance, if Alice records, signs, and later reveals "I cast Fireball at Bob (pistachio)", then Bob would not be able to guess and verify the action without also guessing the extra "(pistachio)". This is known as using a "salt".






share|improve this answer





















  • I've actually done this in some manner. Not in an rpg setting, but hashing a prepared statement.
    – Draco18s
    9 hours ago










  • @Draco18s the term here is SHA commitment.
    – svavil
    7 hours ago










  • I know, and that's what I mean: I hashed a prepared statement with the intent of proving a point about behavior (I was predicting what someone would say in response to something I said).
    – Draco18s
    4 hours ago






  • 2




    In ye olde days, scientists used anagrams to prove their priority without disclosing the discovery. See scienceblogs.com/principles/2014/12/10/… . In our time, anagrams would be cracked almost instantly by a program, so hashing (or outright encrypting) is the way to go.
    – IMil
    3 hours ago










  • Note that this becomes increasingly insecure the more you have a pretty good idea of what the text will be. If there is a set of 10 common actions, like ‘I cast fireball’ or ‘I cast heal’ it wouldn’t take a long time for someone to compile a list of these and try to hash them, possibly in combination with the other players’ names.
    – Sebastiaan van den Broek
    50 mins ago


















up vote
5
down vote













Send the decisions to a trusted third party.



When the time comes to reveal the action, the third party will then do so.



This has the advantage of being simple and doesn't require any technological know-how.






share|improve this answer

















  • 1




    It's not simple at all, as it adds an extra communication channel for every player in the game, and replaces technological know-how with social know-how instead, something that is far less reliable. These are disadvantages!
    – Nij
    10 hours ago






  • 2




    This seems to count as "just relying on good faith."
    – Bloodcinder
    10 hours ago










  • @Nij it is simple in the fact that a high percentage of people can actually accomplish this. The problem with bring encryption schemes, etc into the picture is that few non-technical people will understand how to deal with these things.
    – Destruktor
    18 mins ago


















up vote
3
down vote













Use a communication system like facebook that allows you to set up visibility on each post.



Post a publicly visible post saying




Alice glances at her spell book then gestures, ready to begin casting a spell.




Post a private post saying




If X happens Alice will cast fireball at Y




If the trigger happens change the privacy of the post to public.



The timestamp and edit history should be able to show that the post has not been modified other than to change the visibility.



If you have a DM or similar in the game then you could also give them access to the private posts for their information.






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  • 5




    The potential issue with this is that you could just make multiple private posts with different courses of action, and just make public the one that you decide on after the fact.
    – V2Blast
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    @V2Blast not if you provide a link to the (currently) private post in advance - if Facebook works correctly, it shouldn't reveal the post to others until it's made public, but the url won't change
    – Zac Faragher
    5 hours ago












  • @ZacFaragher: Ah, interesting idea.
    – V2Blast
    3 hours ago


















up vote
2
down vote













An alternative to hash commitment that requires less technical knowhow: do what scientists used to do to establish priority for an idea until they were ready to publish. Instead of a SHA, publish a signature that is easily derived from the message by a human but can't be easily reversed.



One simple "signature" is just to show how many times each letter appears in the message, but not their order. Then when it's time to reveal, it's easy to verify. So Alice can sign the message




I betray Bob




as




ABBBEIORTY




One obvious problem is that for such a short, straightforward message, Bob can probably guess what is meant: there are a lot of Bs and one O, so it's probably about him. He can also rule out some possibilities he's worried about: the message clearly can't include fireball, because there's no F; but it could include betray.



Alice can prevent this by speaking somewhat more cryptically or using a few more words than necessary. If Alice publishes




AAABDDDDEEEEEFGGGHHHHHHIIIIIILLLLMMNOOOOOORRRRRSSTTTTTTTUUUWW




it's hard to guess that she means




Though allied with Robert, I grow tired of him and sell him out to the guards.




Just for fun, note that this message does leave open the possibility of a fireball, in case Alice thinks that's something Bob would want to rule out.






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amalloy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.














  • 1




    I know what your last paragraph means ("Just for fun...") but it would help if you clarified it more, since it's a bit terse and obtuse.
    – Bloodcinder
    6 hours ago










  • @Bloodcinder Feel free to make/suggest an edit. I can't fix it because I don't know what it is you think is unclear.
    – amalloy
    4 hours ago


















up vote
1
down vote













Trust



This one isn't always appropriate - but if you play with a constant group of friends, then simply trusting that they are being honest is the way I usually play games. This works for me, because I don't generally play with randoms or at events outside of home.



Obviously this won't always work - not everyone has the required integrity to resist the urge to cheat. But if you're playing a longer campaign with a consistent group, you'll learn pretty quickly using this method whether it's actually viable.



If not, then the other methods mentioned above are steller. However, as far as simplicity and ease to implement is concerned, this is by far the easiest.






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    up vote
    -1
    down vote














    1. Alice make decision message -> [D]



    2. Encrypt [D] with random private key [PK], make cryptogram -> [C]



      Lots of algorithms can be used here.



    3. Send [C] to Bob.


    4. When event have to occur, Bob request [PK] from Alice.



    5. Alice Send [PK], Bob can translate [C]->[D]



      it is hard to make [C] to desired other decision message[D2] with other [PK2]




    Show programmer in your team this sequence. He will understand if he have learn.






    share|improve this answer










    New contributor




    siamenock is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.














    • 2




      And if there's no programmer available, how does this help anybody? The answer seems to be a much worse version of the answer posted by Chowlett hours ago.
      – Nij
      3 hours ago











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    6 Answers
    6






    active

    oldest

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    6 Answers
    6






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    active

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    active

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    up vote
    47
    down vote













    Have Alice generate and publish an SHA-256 hash of her action.



    SHA-256 is a computationally-secure (to reasonable approximation) algorithm that converts a given string into an unintelligible hexadecimal hash. There are online implementations that will compute SHA256 for you, for instance, here.



    The idea is this:




    1. Alice decides her action - say, "I cast Fireball at Bob"

    2. Alice privately records that exact text

    3. Alice enters that text into an SHA256 generator, producing a meaningless jumble of characters - A0FC4543FDBA266006F1F9FA818183710A8C5CA80613DA109B8A9DBA194DEC4E

    4. Alice publicly announces "I've planned an action; its SHA-256 is A0FC4543FDBA266006F1F9FA818183710A8C5CA80613DA109B8A9DBA194DEC4E"


    Now, Bob cannot tell what Alice has planned because the SHA-256 is not reversible; there's no way to get from the hash back to the action.



    Later, when Alice reveals her plan, she gives the exact text she prepared earlier. If Bob doesn't trust her, he can simply repeat the SHA-256 encryption, and verify that the signatures match.



    If Alice suspects that Bob may guess her action, then she can make things harder by adding an extra, irrelevant component to the action before computing the SHA-256. For instance, if Alice records, signs, and later reveals "I cast Fireball at Bob (pistachio)", then Bob would not be able to guess and verify the action without also guessing the extra "(pistachio)". This is known as using a "salt".






    share|improve this answer





















    • I've actually done this in some manner. Not in an rpg setting, but hashing a prepared statement.
      – Draco18s
      9 hours ago










    • @Draco18s the term here is SHA commitment.
      – svavil
      7 hours ago










    • I know, and that's what I mean: I hashed a prepared statement with the intent of proving a point about behavior (I was predicting what someone would say in response to something I said).
      – Draco18s
      4 hours ago






    • 2




      In ye olde days, scientists used anagrams to prove their priority without disclosing the discovery. See scienceblogs.com/principles/2014/12/10/… . In our time, anagrams would be cracked almost instantly by a program, so hashing (or outright encrypting) is the way to go.
      – IMil
      3 hours ago










    • Note that this becomes increasingly insecure the more you have a pretty good idea of what the text will be. If there is a set of 10 common actions, like ‘I cast fireball’ or ‘I cast heal’ it wouldn’t take a long time for someone to compile a list of these and try to hash them, possibly in combination with the other players’ names.
      – Sebastiaan van den Broek
      50 mins ago















    up vote
    47
    down vote













    Have Alice generate and publish an SHA-256 hash of her action.



    SHA-256 is a computationally-secure (to reasonable approximation) algorithm that converts a given string into an unintelligible hexadecimal hash. There are online implementations that will compute SHA256 for you, for instance, here.



    The idea is this:




    1. Alice decides her action - say, "I cast Fireball at Bob"

    2. Alice privately records that exact text

    3. Alice enters that text into an SHA256 generator, producing a meaningless jumble of characters - A0FC4543FDBA266006F1F9FA818183710A8C5CA80613DA109B8A9DBA194DEC4E

    4. Alice publicly announces "I've planned an action; its SHA-256 is A0FC4543FDBA266006F1F9FA818183710A8C5CA80613DA109B8A9DBA194DEC4E"


    Now, Bob cannot tell what Alice has planned because the SHA-256 is not reversible; there's no way to get from the hash back to the action.



    Later, when Alice reveals her plan, she gives the exact text she prepared earlier. If Bob doesn't trust her, he can simply repeat the SHA-256 encryption, and verify that the signatures match.



    If Alice suspects that Bob may guess her action, then she can make things harder by adding an extra, irrelevant component to the action before computing the SHA-256. For instance, if Alice records, signs, and later reveals "I cast Fireball at Bob (pistachio)", then Bob would not be able to guess and verify the action without also guessing the extra "(pistachio)". This is known as using a "salt".






    share|improve this answer





















    • I've actually done this in some manner. Not in an rpg setting, but hashing a prepared statement.
      – Draco18s
      9 hours ago










    • @Draco18s the term here is SHA commitment.
      – svavil
      7 hours ago










    • I know, and that's what I mean: I hashed a prepared statement with the intent of proving a point about behavior (I was predicting what someone would say in response to something I said).
      – Draco18s
      4 hours ago






    • 2




      In ye olde days, scientists used anagrams to prove their priority without disclosing the discovery. See scienceblogs.com/principles/2014/12/10/… . In our time, anagrams would be cracked almost instantly by a program, so hashing (or outright encrypting) is the way to go.
      – IMil
      3 hours ago










    • Note that this becomes increasingly insecure the more you have a pretty good idea of what the text will be. If there is a set of 10 common actions, like ‘I cast fireball’ or ‘I cast heal’ it wouldn’t take a long time for someone to compile a list of these and try to hash them, possibly in combination with the other players’ names.
      – Sebastiaan van den Broek
      50 mins ago













    up vote
    47
    down vote










    up vote
    47
    down vote









    Have Alice generate and publish an SHA-256 hash of her action.



    SHA-256 is a computationally-secure (to reasonable approximation) algorithm that converts a given string into an unintelligible hexadecimal hash. There are online implementations that will compute SHA256 for you, for instance, here.



    The idea is this:




    1. Alice decides her action - say, "I cast Fireball at Bob"

    2. Alice privately records that exact text

    3. Alice enters that text into an SHA256 generator, producing a meaningless jumble of characters - A0FC4543FDBA266006F1F9FA818183710A8C5CA80613DA109B8A9DBA194DEC4E

    4. Alice publicly announces "I've planned an action; its SHA-256 is A0FC4543FDBA266006F1F9FA818183710A8C5CA80613DA109B8A9DBA194DEC4E"


    Now, Bob cannot tell what Alice has planned because the SHA-256 is not reversible; there's no way to get from the hash back to the action.



    Later, when Alice reveals her plan, she gives the exact text she prepared earlier. If Bob doesn't trust her, he can simply repeat the SHA-256 encryption, and verify that the signatures match.



    If Alice suspects that Bob may guess her action, then she can make things harder by adding an extra, irrelevant component to the action before computing the SHA-256. For instance, if Alice records, signs, and later reveals "I cast Fireball at Bob (pistachio)", then Bob would not be able to guess and verify the action without also guessing the extra "(pistachio)". This is known as using a "salt".






    share|improve this answer












    Have Alice generate and publish an SHA-256 hash of her action.



    SHA-256 is a computationally-secure (to reasonable approximation) algorithm that converts a given string into an unintelligible hexadecimal hash. There are online implementations that will compute SHA256 for you, for instance, here.



    The idea is this:




    1. Alice decides her action - say, "I cast Fireball at Bob"

    2. Alice privately records that exact text

    3. Alice enters that text into an SHA256 generator, producing a meaningless jumble of characters - A0FC4543FDBA266006F1F9FA818183710A8C5CA80613DA109B8A9DBA194DEC4E

    4. Alice publicly announces "I've planned an action; its SHA-256 is A0FC4543FDBA266006F1F9FA818183710A8C5CA80613DA109B8A9DBA194DEC4E"


    Now, Bob cannot tell what Alice has planned because the SHA-256 is not reversible; there's no way to get from the hash back to the action.



    Later, when Alice reveals her plan, she gives the exact text she prepared earlier. If Bob doesn't trust her, he can simply repeat the SHA-256 encryption, and verify that the signatures match.



    If Alice suspects that Bob may guess her action, then she can make things harder by adding an extra, irrelevant component to the action before computing the SHA-256. For instance, if Alice records, signs, and later reveals "I cast Fireball at Bob (pistachio)", then Bob would not be able to guess and verify the action without also guessing the extra "(pistachio)". This is known as using a "salt".







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 13 hours ago









    Chowlett

    48149




    48149












    • I've actually done this in some manner. Not in an rpg setting, but hashing a prepared statement.
      – Draco18s
      9 hours ago










    • @Draco18s the term here is SHA commitment.
      – svavil
      7 hours ago










    • I know, and that's what I mean: I hashed a prepared statement with the intent of proving a point about behavior (I was predicting what someone would say in response to something I said).
      – Draco18s
      4 hours ago






    • 2




      In ye olde days, scientists used anagrams to prove their priority without disclosing the discovery. See scienceblogs.com/principles/2014/12/10/… . In our time, anagrams would be cracked almost instantly by a program, so hashing (or outright encrypting) is the way to go.
      – IMil
      3 hours ago










    • Note that this becomes increasingly insecure the more you have a pretty good idea of what the text will be. If there is a set of 10 common actions, like ‘I cast fireball’ or ‘I cast heal’ it wouldn’t take a long time for someone to compile a list of these and try to hash them, possibly in combination with the other players’ names.
      – Sebastiaan van den Broek
      50 mins ago


















    • I've actually done this in some manner. Not in an rpg setting, but hashing a prepared statement.
      – Draco18s
      9 hours ago










    • @Draco18s the term here is SHA commitment.
      – svavil
      7 hours ago










    • I know, and that's what I mean: I hashed a prepared statement with the intent of proving a point about behavior (I was predicting what someone would say in response to something I said).
      – Draco18s
      4 hours ago






    • 2




      In ye olde days, scientists used anagrams to prove their priority without disclosing the discovery. See scienceblogs.com/principles/2014/12/10/… . In our time, anagrams would be cracked almost instantly by a program, so hashing (or outright encrypting) is the way to go.
      – IMil
      3 hours ago










    • Note that this becomes increasingly insecure the more you have a pretty good idea of what the text will be. If there is a set of 10 common actions, like ‘I cast fireball’ or ‘I cast heal’ it wouldn’t take a long time for someone to compile a list of these and try to hash them, possibly in combination with the other players’ names.
      – Sebastiaan van den Broek
      50 mins ago
















    I've actually done this in some manner. Not in an rpg setting, but hashing a prepared statement.
    – Draco18s
    9 hours ago




    I've actually done this in some manner. Not in an rpg setting, but hashing a prepared statement.
    – Draco18s
    9 hours ago












    @Draco18s the term here is SHA commitment.
    – svavil
    7 hours ago




    @Draco18s the term here is SHA commitment.
    – svavil
    7 hours ago












    I know, and that's what I mean: I hashed a prepared statement with the intent of proving a point about behavior (I was predicting what someone would say in response to something I said).
    – Draco18s
    4 hours ago




    I know, and that's what I mean: I hashed a prepared statement with the intent of proving a point about behavior (I was predicting what someone would say in response to something I said).
    – Draco18s
    4 hours ago




    2




    2




    In ye olde days, scientists used anagrams to prove their priority without disclosing the discovery. See scienceblogs.com/principles/2014/12/10/… . In our time, anagrams would be cracked almost instantly by a program, so hashing (or outright encrypting) is the way to go.
    – IMil
    3 hours ago




    In ye olde days, scientists used anagrams to prove their priority without disclosing the discovery. See scienceblogs.com/principles/2014/12/10/… . In our time, anagrams would be cracked almost instantly by a program, so hashing (or outright encrypting) is the way to go.
    – IMil
    3 hours ago












    Note that this becomes increasingly insecure the more you have a pretty good idea of what the text will be. If there is a set of 10 common actions, like ‘I cast fireball’ or ‘I cast heal’ it wouldn’t take a long time for someone to compile a list of these and try to hash them, possibly in combination with the other players’ names.
    – Sebastiaan van den Broek
    50 mins ago




    Note that this becomes increasingly insecure the more you have a pretty good idea of what the text will be. If there is a set of 10 common actions, like ‘I cast fireball’ or ‘I cast heal’ it wouldn’t take a long time for someone to compile a list of these and try to hash them, possibly in combination with the other players’ names.
    – Sebastiaan van den Broek
    50 mins ago












    up vote
    5
    down vote













    Send the decisions to a trusted third party.



    When the time comes to reveal the action, the third party will then do so.



    This has the advantage of being simple and doesn't require any technological know-how.






    share|improve this answer

















    • 1




      It's not simple at all, as it adds an extra communication channel for every player in the game, and replaces technological know-how with social know-how instead, something that is far less reliable. These are disadvantages!
      – Nij
      10 hours ago






    • 2




      This seems to count as "just relying on good faith."
      – Bloodcinder
      10 hours ago










    • @Nij it is simple in the fact that a high percentage of people can actually accomplish this. The problem with bring encryption schemes, etc into the picture is that few non-technical people will understand how to deal with these things.
      – Destruktor
      18 mins ago















    up vote
    5
    down vote













    Send the decisions to a trusted third party.



    When the time comes to reveal the action, the third party will then do so.



    This has the advantage of being simple and doesn't require any technological know-how.






    share|improve this answer

















    • 1




      It's not simple at all, as it adds an extra communication channel for every player in the game, and replaces technological know-how with social know-how instead, something that is far less reliable. These are disadvantages!
      – Nij
      10 hours ago






    • 2




      This seems to count as "just relying on good faith."
      – Bloodcinder
      10 hours ago










    • @Nij it is simple in the fact that a high percentage of people can actually accomplish this. The problem with bring encryption schemes, etc into the picture is that few non-technical people will understand how to deal with these things.
      – Destruktor
      18 mins ago













    up vote
    5
    down vote










    up vote
    5
    down vote









    Send the decisions to a trusted third party.



    When the time comes to reveal the action, the third party will then do so.



    This has the advantage of being simple and doesn't require any technological know-how.






    share|improve this answer












    Send the decisions to a trusted third party.



    When the time comes to reveal the action, the third party will then do so.



    This has the advantage of being simple and doesn't require any technological know-how.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 12 hours ago









    Destruktor

    2,0361443




    2,0361443








    • 1




      It's not simple at all, as it adds an extra communication channel for every player in the game, and replaces technological know-how with social know-how instead, something that is far less reliable. These are disadvantages!
      – Nij
      10 hours ago






    • 2




      This seems to count as "just relying on good faith."
      – Bloodcinder
      10 hours ago










    • @Nij it is simple in the fact that a high percentage of people can actually accomplish this. The problem with bring encryption schemes, etc into the picture is that few non-technical people will understand how to deal with these things.
      – Destruktor
      18 mins ago














    • 1




      It's not simple at all, as it adds an extra communication channel for every player in the game, and replaces technological know-how with social know-how instead, something that is far less reliable. These are disadvantages!
      – Nij
      10 hours ago






    • 2




      This seems to count as "just relying on good faith."
      – Bloodcinder
      10 hours ago










    • @Nij it is simple in the fact that a high percentage of people can actually accomplish this. The problem with bring encryption schemes, etc into the picture is that few non-technical people will understand how to deal with these things.
      – Destruktor
      18 mins ago








    1




    1




    It's not simple at all, as it adds an extra communication channel for every player in the game, and replaces technological know-how with social know-how instead, something that is far less reliable. These are disadvantages!
    – Nij
    10 hours ago




    It's not simple at all, as it adds an extra communication channel for every player in the game, and replaces technological know-how with social know-how instead, something that is far less reliable. These are disadvantages!
    – Nij
    10 hours ago




    2




    2




    This seems to count as "just relying on good faith."
    – Bloodcinder
    10 hours ago




    This seems to count as "just relying on good faith."
    – Bloodcinder
    10 hours ago












    @Nij it is simple in the fact that a high percentage of people can actually accomplish this. The problem with bring encryption schemes, etc into the picture is that few non-technical people will understand how to deal with these things.
    – Destruktor
    18 mins ago




    @Nij it is simple in the fact that a high percentage of people can actually accomplish this. The problem with bring encryption schemes, etc into the picture is that few non-technical people will understand how to deal with these things.
    – Destruktor
    18 mins ago










    up vote
    3
    down vote













    Use a communication system like facebook that allows you to set up visibility on each post.



    Post a publicly visible post saying




    Alice glances at her spell book then gestures, ready to begin casting a spell.




    Post a private post saying




    If X happens Alice will cast fireball at Y




    If the trigger happens change the privacy of the post to public.



    The timestamp and edit history should be able to show that the post has not been modified other than to change the visibility.



    If you have a DM or similar in the game then you could also give them access to the private posts for their information.






    share|improve this answer

















    • 5




      The potential issue with this is that you could just make multiple private posts with different courses of action, and just make public the one that you decide on after the fact.
      – V2Blast
      7 hours ago






    • 1




      @V2Blast not if you provide a link to the (currently) private post in advance - if Facebook works correctly, it shouldn't reveal the post to others until it's made public, but the url won't change
      – Zac Faragher
      5 hours ago












    • @ZacFaragher: Ah, interesting idea.
      – V2Blast
      3 hours ago















    up vote
    3
    down vote













    Use a communication system like facebook that allows you to set up visibility on each post.



    Post a publicly visible post saying




    Alice glances at her spell book then gestures, ready to begin casting a spell.




    Post a private post saying




    If X happens Alice will cast fireball at Y




    If the trigger happens change the privacy of the post to public.



    The timestamp and edit history should be able to show that the post has not been modified other than to change the visibility.



    If you have a DM or similar in the game then you could also give them access to the private posts for their information.






    share|improve this answer

















    • 5




      The potential issue with this is that you could just make multiple private posts with different courses of action, and just make public the one that you decide on after the fact.
      – V2Blast
      7 hours ago






    • 1




      @V2Blast not if you provide a link to the (currently) private post in advance - if Facebook works correctly, it shouldn't reveal the post to others until it's made public, but the url won't change
      – Zac Faragher
      5 hours ago












    • @ZacFaragher: Ah, interesting idea.
      – V2Blast
      3 hours ago













    up vote
    3
    down vote










    up vote
    3
    down vote









    Use a communication system like facebook that allows you to set up visibility on each post.



    Post a publicly visible post saying




    Alice glances at her spell book then gestures, ready to begin casting a spell.




    Post a private post saying




    If X happens Alice will cast fireball at Y




    If the trigger happens change the privacy of the post to public.



    The timestamp and edit history should be able to show that the post has not been modified other than to change the visibility.



    If you have a DM or similar in the game then you could also give them access to the private posts for their information.






    share|improve this answer












    Use a communication system like facebook that allows you to set up visibility on each post.



    Post a publicly visible post saying




    Alice glances at her spell book then gestures, ready to begin casting a spell.




    Post a private post saying




    If X happens Alice will cast fireball at Y




    If the trigger happens change the privacy of the post to public.



    The timestamp and edit history should be able to show that the post has not been modified other than to change the visibility.



    If you have a DM or similar in the game then you could also give them access to the private posts for their information.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 9 hours ago









    Tim B

    5,1761246




    5,1761246








    • 5




      The potential issue with this is that you could just make multiple private posts with different courses of action, and just make public the one that you decide on after the fact.
      – V2Blast
      7 hours ago






    • 1




      @V2Blast not if you provide a link to the (currently) private post in advance - if Facebook works correctly, it shouldn't reveal the post to others until it's made public, but the url won't change
      – Zac Faragher
      5 hours ago












    • @ZacFaragher: Ah, interesting idea.
      – V2Blast
      3 hours ago














    • 5




      The potential issue with this is that you could just make multiple private posts with different courses of action, and just make public the one that you decide on after the fact.
      – V2Blast
      7 hours ago






    • 1




      @V2Blast not if you provide a link to the (currently) private post in advance - if Facebook works correctly, it shouldn't reveal the post to others until it's made public, but the url won't change
      – Zac Faragher
      5 hours ago












    • @ZacFaragher: Ah, interesting idea.
      – V2Blast
      3 hours ago








    5




    5




    The potential issue with this is that you could just make multiple private posts with different courses of action, and just make public the one that you decide on after the fact.
    – V2Blast
    7 hours ago




    The potential issue with this is that you could just make multiple private posts with different courses of action, and just make public the one that you decide on after the fact.
    – V2Blast
    7 hours ago




    1




    1




    @V2Blast not if you provide a link to the (currently) private post in advance - if Facebook works correctly, it shouldn't reveal the post to others until it's made public, but the url won't change
    – Zac Faragher
    5 hours ago






    @V2Blast not if you provide a link to the (currently) private post in advance - if Facebook works correctly, it shouldn't reveal the post to others until it's made public, but the url won't change
    – Zac Faragher
    5 hours ago














    @ZacFaragher: Ah, interesting idea.
    – V2Blast
    3 hours ago




    @ZacFaragher: Ah, interesting idea.
    – V2Blast
    3 hours ago










    up vote
    2
    down vote













    An alternative to hash commitment that requires less technical knowhow: do what scientists used to do to establish priority for an idea until they were ready to publish. Instead of a SHA, publish a signature that is easily derived from the message by a human but can't be easily reversed.



    One simple "signature" is just to show how many times each letter appears in the message, but not their order. Then when it's time to reveal, it's easy to verify. So Alice can sign the message




    I betray Bob




    as




    ABBBEIORTY




    One obvious problem is that for such a short, straightforward message, Bob can probably guess what is meant: there are a lot of Bs and one O, so it's probably about him. He can also rule out some possibilities he's worried about: the message clearly can't include fireball, because there's no F; but it could include betray.



    Alice can prevent this by speaking somewhat more cryptically or using a few more words than necessary. If Alice publishes




    AAABDDDDEEEEEFGGGHHHHHHIIIIIILLLLMMNOOOOOORRRRRSSTTTTTTTUUUWW




    it's hard to guess that she means




    Though allied with Robert, I grow tired of him and sell him out to the guards.




    Just for fun, note that this message does leave open the possibility of a fireball, in case Alice thinks that's something Bob would want to rule out.






    share|improve this answer










    New contributor




    amalloy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.














    • 1




      I know what your last paragraph means ("Just for fun...") but it would help if you clarified it more, since it's a bit terse and obtuse.
      – Bloodcinder
      6 hours ago










    • @Bloodcinder Feel free to make/suggest an edit. I can't fix it because I don't know what it is you think is unclear.
      – amalloy
      4 hours ago















    up vote
    2
    down vote













    An alternative to hash commitment that requires less technical knowhow: do what scientists used to do to establish priority for an idea until they were ready to publish. Instead of a SHA, publish a signature that is easily derived from the message by a human but can't be easily reversed.



    One simple "signature" is just to show how many times each letter appears in the message, but not their order. Then when it's time to reveal, it's easy to verify. So Alice can sign the message




    I betray Bob




    as




    ABBBEIORTY




    One obvious problem is that for such a short, straightforward message, Bob can probably guess what is meant: there are a lot of Bs and one O, so it's probably about him. He can also rule out some possibilities he's worried about: the message clearly can't include fireball, because there's no F; but it could include betray.



    Alice can prevent this by speaking somewhat more cryptically or using a few more words than necessary. If Alice publishes




    AAABDDDDEEEEEFGGGHHHHHHIIIIIILLLLMMNOOOOOORRRRRSSTTTTTTTUUUWW




    it's hard to guess that she means




    Though allied with Robert, I grow tired of him and sell him out to the guards.




    Just for fun, note that this message does leave open the possibility of a fireball, in case Alice thinks that's something Bob would want to rule out.






    share|improve this answer










    New contributor




    amalloy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.














    • 1




      I know what your last paragraph means ("Just for fun...") but it would help if you clarified it more, since it's a bit terse and obtuse.
      – Bloodcinder
      6 hours ago










    • @Bloodcinder Feel free to make/suggest an edit. I can't fix it because I don't know what it is you think is unclear.
      – amalloy
      4 hours ago













    up vote
    2
    down vote










    up vote
    2
    down vote









    An alternative to hash commitment that requires less technical knowhow: do what scientists used to do to establish priority for an idea until they were ready to publish. Instead of a SHA, publish a signature that is easily derived from the message by a human but can't be easily reversed.



    One simple "signature" is just to show how many times each letter appears in the message, but not their order. Then when it's time to reveal, it's easy to verify. So Alice can sign the message




    I betray Bob




    as




    ABBBEIORTY




    One obvious problem is that for such a short, straightforward message, Bob can probably guess what is meant: there are a lot of Bs and one O, so it's probably about him. He can also rule out some possibilities he's worried about: the message clearly can't include fireball, because there's no F; but it could include betray.



    Alice can prevent this by speaking somewhat more cryptically or using a few more words than necessary. If Alice publishes




    AAABDDDDEEEEEFGGGHHHHHHIIIIIILLLLMMNOOOOOORRRRRSSTTTTTTTUUUWW




    it's hard to guess that she means




    Though allied with Robert, I grow tired of him and sell him out to the guards.




    Just for fun, note that this message does leave open the possibility of a fireball, in case Alice thinks that's something Bob would want to rule out.






    share|improve this answer










    New contributor




    amalloy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.









    An alternative to hash commitment that requires less technical knowhow: do what scientists used to do to establish priority for an idea until they were ready to publish. Instead of a SHA, publish a signature that is easily derived from the message by a human but can't be easily reversed.



    One simple "signature" is just to show how many times each letter appears in the message, but not their order. Then when it's time to reveal, it's easy to verify. So Alice can sign the message




    I betray Bob




    as




    ABBBEIORTY




    One obvious problem is that for such a short, straightforward message, Bob can probably guess what is meant: there are a lot of Bs and one O, so it's probably about him. He can also rule out some possibilities he's worried about: the message clearly can't include fireball, because there's no F; but it could include betray.



    Alice can prevent this by speaking somewhat more cryptically or using a few more words than necessary. If Alice publishes




    AAABDDDDEEEEEFGGGHHHHHHIIIIIILLLLMMNOOOOOORRRRRSSTTTTTTTUUUWW




    it's hard to guess that she means




    Though allied with Robert, I grow tired of him and sell him out to the guards.




    Just for fun, note that this message does leave open the possibility of a fireball, in case Alice thinks that's something Bob would want to rule out.







    share|improve this answer










    New contributor




    amalloy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.









    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 6 hours ago





















    New contributor




    amalloy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.









    answered 6 hours ago









    amalloy

    1234




    1234




    New contributor




    amalloy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.





    New contributor





    amalloy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.






    amalloy is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.








    • 1




      I know what your last paragraph means ("Just for fun...") but it would help if you clarified it more, since it's a bit terse and obtuse.
      – Bloodcinder
      6 hours ago










    • @Bloodcinder Feel free to make/suggest an edit. I can't fix it because I don't know what it is you think is unclear.
      – amalloy
      4 hours ago














    • 1




      I know what your last paragraph means ("Just for fun...") but it would help if you clarified it more, since it's a bit terse and obtuse.
      – Bloodcinder
      6 hours ago










    • @Bloodcinder Feel free to make/suggest an edit. I can't fix it because I don't know what it is you think is unclear.
      – amalloy
      4 hours ago








    1




    1




    I know what your last paragraph means ("Just for fun...") but it would help if you clarified it more, since it's a bit terse and obtuse.
    – Bloodcinder
    6 hours ago




    I know what your last paragraph means ("Just for fun...") but it would help if you clarified it more, since it's a bit terse and obtuse.
    – Bloodcinder
    6 hours ago












    @Bloodcinder Feel free to make/suggest an edit. I can't fix it because I don't know what it is you think is unclear.
    – amalloy
    4 hours ago




    @Bloodcinder Feel free to make/suggest an edit. I can't fix it because I don't know what it is you think is unclear.
    – amalloy
    4 hours ago










    up vote
    1
    down vote













    Trust



    This one isn't always appropriate - but if you play with a constant group of friends, then simply trusting that they are being honest is the way I usually play games. This works for me, because I don't generally play with randoms or at events outside of home.



    Obviously this won't always work - not everyone has the required integrity to resist the urge to cheat. But if you're playing a longer campaign with a consistent group, you'll learn pretty quickly using this method whether it's actually viable.



    If not, then the other methods mentioned above are steller. However, as far as simplicity and ease to implement is concerned, this is by far the easiest.






    share|improve this answer

























      up vote
      1
      down vote













      Trust



      This one isn't always appropriate - but if you play with a constant group of friends, then simply trusting that they are being honest is the way I usually play games. This works for me, because I don't generally play with randoms or at events outside of home.



      Obviously this won't always work - not everyone has the required integrity to resist the urge to cheat. But if you're playing a longer campaign with a consistent group, you'll learn pretty quickly using this method whether it's actually viable.



      If not, then the other methods mentioned above are steller. However, as far as simplicity and ease to implement is concerned, this is by far the easiest.






      share|improve this answer























        up vote
        1
        down vote










        up vote
        1
        down vote









        Trust



        This one isn't always appropriate - but if you play with a constant group of friends, then simply trusting that they are being honest is the way I usually play games. This works for me, because I don't generally play with randoms or at events outside of home.



        Obviously this won't always work - not everyone has the required integrity to resist the urge to cheat. But if you're playing a longer campaign with a consistent group, you'll learn pretty quickly using this method whether it's actually viable.



        If not, then the other methods mentioned above are steller. However, as far as simplicity and ease to implement is concerned, this is by far the easiest.






        share|improve this answer












        Trust



        This one isn't always appropriate - but if you play with a constant group of friends, then simply trusting that they are being honest is the way I usually play games. This works for me, because I don't generally play with randoms or at events outside of home.



        Obviously this won't always work - not everyone has the required integrity to resist the urge to cheat. But if you're playing a longer campaign with a consistent group, you'll learn pretty quickly using this method whether it's actually viable.



        If not, then the other methods mentioned above are steller. However, as far as simplicity and ease to implement is concerned, this is by far the easiest.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 6 hours ago









        Shadow

        340112




        340112






















            up vote
            -1
            down vote














            1. Alice make decision message -> [D]



            2. Encrypt [D] with random private key [PK], make cryptogram -> [C]



              Lots of algorithms can be used here.



            3. Send [C] to Bob.


            4. When event have to occur, Bob request [PK] from Alice.



            5. Alice Send [PK], Bob can translate [C]->[D]



              it is hard to make [C] to desired other decision message[D2] with other [PK2]




            Show programmer in your team this sequence. He will understand if he have learn.






            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




            siamenock is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.














            • 2




              And if there's no programmer available, how does this help anybody? The answer seems to be a much worse version of the answer posted by Chowlett hours ago.
              – Nij
              3 hours ago















            up vote
            -1
            down vote














            1. Alice make decision message -> [D]



            2. Encrypt [D] with random private key [PK], make cryptogram -> [C]



              Lots of algorithms can be used here.



            3. Send [C] to Bob.


            4. When event have to occur, Bob request [PK] from Alice.



            5. Alice Send [PK], Bob can translate [C]->[D]



              it is hard to make [C] to desired other decision message[D2] with other [PK2]




            Show programmer in your team this sequence. He will understand if he have learn.






            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




            siamenock is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.














            • 2




              And if there's no programmer available, how does this help anybody? The answer seems to be a much worse version of the answer posted by Chowlett hours ago.
              – Nij
              3 hours ago













            up vote
            -1
            down vote










            up vote
            -1
            down vote










            1. Alice make decision message -> [D]



            2. Encrypt [D] with random private key [PK], make cryptogram -> [C]



              Lots of algorithms can be used here.



            3. Send [C] to Bob.


            4. When event have to occur, Bob request [PK] from Alice.



            5. Alice Send [PK], Bob can translate [C]->[D]



              it is hard to make [C] to desired other decision message[D2] with other [PK2]




            Show programmer in your team this sequence. He will understand if he have learn.






            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




            siamenock is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.










            1. Alice make decision message -> [D]



            2. Encrypt [D] with random private key [PK], make cryptogram -> [C]



              Lots of algorithms can be used here.



            3. Send [C] to Bob.


            4. When event have to occur, Bob request [PK] from Alice.



            5. Alice Send [PK], Bob can translate [C]->[D]



              it is hard to make [C] to desired other decision message[D2] with other [PK2]




            Show programmer in your team this sequence. He will understand if he have learn.







            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




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            edited 3 hours ago









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            answered 4 hours ago









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            • 2




              And if there's no programmer available, how does this help anybody? The answer seems to be a much worse version of the answer posted by Chowlett hours ago.
              – Nij
              3 hours ago














            • 2




              And if there's no programmer available, how does this help anybody? The answer seems to be a much worse version of the answer posted by Chowlett hours ago.
              – Nij
              3 hours ago








            2




            2




            And if there's no programmer available, how does this help anybody? The answer seems to be a much worse version of the answer posted by Chowlett hours ago.
            – Nij
            3 hours ago




            And if there's no programmer available, how does this help anybody? The answer seems to be a much worse version of the answer posted by Chowlett hours ago.
            – Nij
            3 hours ago


















             

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