Question of putting Roman Numerals on a chord sequence I have











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I only have a little knowledge of music theory and was unable to work out how to use roman numerals to denote a chord sequence of one of my old tunes which starts in Fm. I have listed the chord sequence a follows:



Fm Ebm F#m Bbm played twice, then, Fm Ebm Em Dm Bdim A



I know this has a modulation at the end but I don't know how to set Roman Numerals to the chords.










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    Can I ask what "pluutin" is?
    – Richard
    13 hours ago






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    @Richard "Question of putting Roman Numerals on a chord sequence [he has]."
    – user57423
    8 hours ago

















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I only have a little knowledge of music theory and was unable to work out how to use roman numerals to denote a chord sequence of one of my old tunes which starts in Fm. I have listed the chord sequence a follows:



Fm Ebm F#m Bbm played twice, then, Fm Ebm Em Dm Bdim A



I know this has a modulation at the end but I don't know how to set Roman Numerals to the chords.










share|improve this question









New contributor




Matt Brown is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
















  • 3




    Can I ask what "pluutin" is?
    – Richard
    13 hours ago






  • 1




    @Richard "Question of putting Roman Numerals on a chord sequence [he has]."
    – user57423
    8 hours ago















up vote
1
down vote

favorite









up vote
1
down vote

favorite











I only have a little knowledge of music theory and was unable to work out how to use roman numerals to denote a chord sequence of one of my old tunes which starts in Fm. I have listed the chord sequence a follows:



Fm Ebm F#m Bbm played twice, then, Fm Ebm Em Dm Bdim A



I know this has a modulation at the end but I don't know how to set Roman Numerals to the chords.










share|improve this question









New contributor




Matt Brown is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











I only have a little knowledge of music theory and was unable to work out how to use roman numerals to denote a chord sequence of one of my old tunes which starts in Fm. I have listed the chord sequence a follows:



Fm Ebm F#m Bbm played twice, then, Fm Ebm Em Dm Bdim A



I know this has a modulation at the end but I don't know how to set Roman Numerals to the chords.







theory chord-progressions roman-numerals






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Matt Brown is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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share|improve this question









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Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




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edited 8 hours ago









Richard

35.5k677151




35.5k677151






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asked 14 hours ago









Matt Brown

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New contributor





Matt Brown is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






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Check out our Code of Conduct.








  • 3




    Can I ask what "pluutin" is?
    – Richard
    13 hours ago






  • 1




    @Richard "Question of putting Roman Numerals on a chord sequence [he has]."
    – user57423
    8 hours ago
















  • 3




    Can I ask what "pluutin" is?
    – Richard
    13 hours ago






  • 1




    @Richard "Question of putting Roman Numerals on a chord sequence [he has]."
    – user57423
    8 hours ago










3




3




Can I ask what "pluutin" is?
– Richard
13 hours ago




Can I ask what "pluutin" is?
– Richard
13 hours ago




1




1




@Richard "Question of putting Roman Numerals on a chord sequence [he has]."
– user57423
8 hours ago






@Richard "Question of putting Roman Numerals on a chord sequence [he has]."
– user57423
8 hours ago












2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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up vote
4
down vote













Roman numerals can be really helpful for music the follows traditional harmonic syntax. But if music is really chromatic, sometimes Roman numerals really aren't helpful at all. Unfortunately, I think your progression is one such case: we can stick Roman numerals to the chords, but it won't tell us much (if anything) that's helpful.




Fm E♭m F♯m Bbm Fm E♭m Em Dm B° A
i vii ♭ii iv i vii v iv ii° I
*** ###


Two caveats of the above progression:




  • The chord marked *** I have interpreted enharmonically as G♭ minor so as to understand it as ♭II (a modified Neapolitan chord).

  • The chords beginning at ### are no longer understood in F minor, but in A.


Since Roman numerals aren't all that helpful, we can perhaps better understand this progression as an example of planing. Planing is when we take a particular chord type and just move it up and down in musical space. In this case, you plane a root-position minor chord and move it up and down through the chromatic universe, and then you use it to reach a pretty clear iv–ii°–I cadence in A major.






share|improve this answer






























    up vote
    1
    down vote













    Roman Numeral Analysis wouldn't do much good for chord progressions like these because it's not clear what key these progressions belong to, especially the second progression. Something important to note about music theory, compared to other lofty kinds of theory (physics, mathematics, etc) is that music theory does not dictate how one should or shouldn't write. It simply allows us to communicate what's happening in the music in a succinct, formal, and analytic format. What I see in your progression is, instead, a root-movement relationship built on intervals. However just because that's what I see in there does not magically mean that's why you wrote it that way.



    The first progression could be said to be "constant structure" minor chords (i.e., entirely minor chords) built upon an increasingly large root movement: Major second/diminished third between Fm/Ebm, minor third between Ebm/F#m, and major third between F#m/Bbm. The second progression looks to me like a chain of seconds of varying sizes: Fm->Ebm = M2, Ebm->Em = m2, Em->Dm = M2, Dm->Bdim = A2(m3), Bdim->A = M2. The diminished and major chords in this progression provide significant color differentiation to break up the monotony of the minor chords.



    This is simply how I would explain the construction of these progressions, and I'm sure several other people would have different analyses as well.






    share|improve this answer

















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      Your second and third sentences should be carved into stone!
      – Richard
      12 hours ago











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    2 Answers
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    2 Answers
    2






    active

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    up vote
    4
    down vote













    Roman numerals can be really helpful for music the follows traditional harmonic syntax. But if music is really chromatic, sometimes Roman numerals really aren't helpful at all. Unfortunately, I think your progression is one such case: we can stick Roman numerals to the chords, but it won't tell us much (if anything) that's helpful.




    Fm E♭m F♯m Bbm Fm E♭m Em Dm B° A
    i vii ♭ii iv i vii v iv ii° I
    *** ###


    Two caveats of the above progression:




    • The chord marked *** I have interpreted enharmonically as G♭ minor so as to understand it as ♭II (a modified Neapolitan chord).

    • The chords beginning at ### are no longer understood in F minor, but in A.


    Since Roman numerals aren't all that helpful, we can perhaps better understand this progression as an example of planing. Planing is when we take a particular chord type and just move it up and down in musical space. In this case, you plane a root-position minor chord and move it up and down through the chromatic universe, and then you use it to reach a pretty clear iv–ii°–I cadence in A major.






    share|improve this answer



























      up vote
      4
      down vote













      Roman numerals can be really helpful for music the follows traditional harmonic syntax. But if music is really chromatic, sometimes Roman numerals really aren't helpful at all. Unfortunately, I think your progression is one such case: we can stick Roman numerals to the chords, but it won't tell us much (if anything) that's helpful.




      Fm E♭m F♯m Bbm Fm E♭m Em Dm B° A
      i vii ♭ii iv i vii v iv ii° I
      *** ###


      Two caveats of the above progression:




      • The chord marked *** I have interpreted enharmonically as G♭ minor so as to understand it as ♭II (a modified Neapolitan chord).

      • The chords beginning at ### are no longer understood in F minor, but in A.


      Since Roman numerals aren't all that helpful, we can perhaps better understand this progression as an example of planing. Planing is when we take a particular chord type and just move it up and down in musical space. In this case, you plane a root-position minor chord and move it up and down through the chromatic universe, and then you use it to reach a pretty clear iv–ii°–I cadence in A major.






      share|improve this answer

























        up vote
        4
        down vote










        up vote
        4
        down vote









        Roman numerals can be really helpful for music the follows traditional harmonic syntax. But if music is really chromatic, sometimes Roman numerals really aren't helpful at all. Unfortunately, I think your progression is one such case: we can stick Roman numerals to the chords, but it won't tell us much (if anything) that's helpful.




        Fm E♭m F♯m Bbm Fm E♭m Em Dm B° A
        i vii ♭ii iv i vii v iv ii° I
        *** ###


        Two caveats of the above progression:




        • The chord marked *** I have interpreted enharmonically as G♭ minor so as to understand it as ♭II (a modified Neapolitan chord).

        • The chords beginning at ### are no longer understood in F minor, but in A.


        Since Roman numerals aren't all that helpful, we can perhaps better understand this progression as an example of planing. Planing is when we take a particular chord type and just move it up and down in musical space. In this case, you plane a root-position minor chord and move it up and down through the chromatic universe, and then you use it to reach a pretty clear iv–ii°–I cadence in A major.






        share|improve this answer














        Roman numerals can be really helpful for music the follows traditional harmonic syntax. But if music is really chromatic, sometimes Roman numerals really aren't helpful at all. Unfortunately, I think your progression is one such case: we can stick Roman numerals to the chords, but it won't tell us much (if anything) that's helpful.




        Fm E♭m F♯m Bbm Fm E♭m Em Dm B° A
        i vii ♭ii iv i vii v iv ii° I
        *** ###


        Two caveats of the above progression:




        • The chord marked *** I have interpreted enharmonically as G♭ minor so as to understand it as ♭II (a modified Neapolitan chord).

        • The chords beginning at ### are no longer understood in F minor, but in A.


        Since Roman numerals aren't all that helpful, we can perhaps better understand this progression as an example of planing. Planing is when we take a particular chord type and just move it up and down in musical space. In this case, you plane a root-position minor chord and move it up and down through the chromatic universe, and then you use it to reach a pretty clear iv–ii°–I cadence in A major.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited 13 hours ago

























        answered 13 hours ago









        Richard

        35.5k677151




        35.5k677151






















            up vote
            1
            down vote













            Roman Numeral Analysis wouldn't do much good for chord progressions like these because it's not clear what key these progressions belong to, especially the second progression. Something important to note about music theory, compared to other lofty kinds of theory (physics, mathematics, etc) is that music theory does not dictate how one should or shouldn't write. It simply allows us to communicate what's happening in the music in a succinct, formal, and analytic format. What I see in your progression is, instead, a root-movement relationship built on intervals. However just because that's what I see in there does not magically mean that's why you wrote it that way.



            The first progression could be said to be "constant structure" minor chords (i.e., entirely minor chords) built upon an increasingly large root movement: Major second/diminished third between Fm/Ebm, minor third between Ebm/F#m, and major third between F#m/Bbm. The second progression looks to me like a chain of seconds of varying sizes: Fm->Ebm = M2, Ebm->Em = m2, Em->Dm = M2, Dm->Bdim = A2(m3), Bdim->A = M2. The diminished and major chords in this progression provide significant color differentiation to break up the monotony of the minor chords.



            This is simply how I would explain the construction of these progressions, and I'm sure several other people would have different analyses as well.






            share|improve this answer

















            • 2




              Your second and third sentences should be carved into stone!
              – Richard
              12 hours ago















            up vote
            1
            down vote













            Roman Numeral Analysis wouldn't do much good for chord progressions like these because it's not clear what key these progressions belong to, especially the second progression. Something important to note about music theory, compared to other lofty kinds of theory (physics, mathematics, etc) is that music theory does not dictate how one should or shouldn't write. It simply allows us to communicate what's happening in the music in a succinct, formal, and analytic format. What I see in your progression is, instead, a root-movement relationship built on intervals. However just because that's what I see in there does not magically mean that's why you wrote it that way.



            The first progression could be said to be "constant structure" minor chords (i.e., entirely minor chords) built upon an increasingly large root movement: Major second/diminished third between Fm/Ebm, minor third between Ebm/F#m, and major third between F#m/Bbm. The second progression looks to me like a chain of seconds of varying sizes: Fm->Ebm = M2, Ebm->Em = m2, Em->Dm = M2, Dm->Bdim = A2(m3), Bdim->A = M2. The diminished and major chords in this progression provide significant color differentiation to break up the monotony of the minor chords.



            This is simply how I would explain the construction of these progressions, and I'm sure several other people would have different analyses as well.






            share|improve this answer

















            • 2




              Your second and third sentences should be carved into stone!
              – Richard
              12 hours ago













            up vote
            1
            down vote










            up vote
            1
            down vote









            Roman Numeral Analysis wouldn't do much good for chord progressions like these because it's not clear what key these progressions belong to, especially the second progression. Something important to note about music theory, compared to other lofty kinds of theory (physics, mathematics, etc) is that music theory does not dictate how one should or shouldn't write. It simply allows us to communicate what's happening in the music in a succinct, formal, and analytic format. What I see in your progression is, instead, a root-movement relationship built on intervals. However just because that's what I see in there does not magically mean that's why you wrote it that way.



            The first progression could be said to be "constant structure" minor chords (i.e., entirely minor chords) built upon an increasingly large root movement: Major second/diminished third between Fm/Ebm, minor third between Ebm/F#m, and major third between F#m/Bbm. The second progression looks to me like a chain of seconds of varying sizes: Fm->Ebm = M2, Ebm->Em = m2, Em->Dm = M2, Dm->Bdim = A2(m3), Bdim->A = M2. The diminished and major chords in this progression provide significant color differentiation to break up the monotony of the minor chords.



            This is simply how I would explain the construction of these progressions, and I'm sure several other people would have different analyses as well.






            share|improve this answer












            Roman Numeral Analysis wouldn't do much good for chord progressions like these because it's not clear what key these progressions belong to, especially the second progression. Something important to note about music theory, compared to other lofty kinds of theory (physics, mathematics, etc) is that music theory does not dictate how one should or shouldn't write. It simply allows us to communicate what's happening in the music in a succinct, formal, and analytic format. What I see in your progression is, instead, a root-movement relationship built on intervals. However just because that's what I see in there does not magically mean that's why you wrote it that way.



            The first progression could be said to be "constant structure" minor chords (i.e., entirely minor chords) built upon an increasingly large root movement: Major second/diminished third between Fm/Ebm, minor third between Ebm/F#m, and major third between F#m/Bbm. The second progression looks to me like a chain of seconds of varying sizes: Fm->Ebm = M2, Ebm->Em = m2, Em->Dm = M2, Dm->Bdim = A2(m3), Bdim->A = M2. The diminished and major chords in this progression provide significant color differentiation to break up the monotony of the minor chords.



            This is simply how I would explain the construction of these progressions, and I'm sure several other people would have different analyses as well.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 13 hours ago









            LSM07

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            • 2




              Your second and third sentences should be carved into stone!
              – Richard
              12 hours ago














            • 2




              Your second and third sentences should be carved into stone!
              – Richard
              12 hours ago








            2




            2




            Your second and third sentences should be carved into stone!
            – Richard
            12 hours ago




            Your second and third sentences should be carved into stone!
            – Richard
            12 hours ago










            Matt Brown is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










             

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